MR. ALDERMAN W. LAWRENCESir, the Chancellor of the Exchequer has proposed for our consideration in the Recess a curious conundrum with respect to coinage, currency, and circulation. So much misapprehension prevails on the subject that I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman, Whether, in his suggestion the other evening respecting the gold coinage, he proposed that a person sending to the Mint a bar of gold, for which he now received 100 sovereigns without deduction for coining, should in future receive only 99 sovereigns of the same weight and quality as at present, the one sovereign being retained by the Mint for expenses of coinage; or whether he proposes that the same bar of gold should be coined into 101 sovereigns of less weight or quality than at present, and that the person sending the bar should receive 100 sovereigns, the remaining one being retained by the Mint for the expense of coinage. If the latter proposition were carried into effect, I wish to ask whether it would not necessarily involve the reduction of the intrinsic value of the pound sterling to be paid under existing deeds, mortgages, contracts, and other engagements, public and private, at home and abroad?
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERSir, the conundrum which I proposed to the House does not involve either of the propositions. My suggestion was this—that a man, taking the words of the question, who brought to the Mint a bar of gold for which he would now receive 100 sovereigns should receive 100 sovereigns still, but that each, of these sovereigns should be lighter than the present sovereign by one grain, value somewhere about 2d., approximating nearly to 1 per cent on the value of the sovereign. The proposal was—at least the idea was, for there was no proposal—that if this one grain were deducted from the value of each of the sovereigns issued, there would re- 1533 main over and above the bar of gold brought to the Mint, after the issue of the 100 sovereigns forming its equivalent, 100 grains of gold, which the Mint would pay into the Exchequer under the head of miscellaneous income, to be applied to the general purposes of revenue. I need not, therefore, enter into the question as to the effect of the proposal in either of the hypothetical cases put by the hon. Gentleman upon contracts, mortgages, engagements, and all the other things. But as regards the practical proposition which I did make I may say one word. The hon. Gentleman asks about the intrinsic value. I do not know what "intrinsic value" means; it is an ambiguous phrase. As far as I know there is no such thing as intrinsic value. It is not an inherent quality in the substance itself which gives to it its pecuniary value; the intrinsic value, in the sense which the hon. Gentleman means, is, as I conceive relative; that is to say, measuring the value of the thing in question by the amount of labour and capital which it would take to produce it. But if the hon. Gentleman means by intrinsic value the amount of gold which the sovereign will contain, then my proposition certainly involves the reduction of the intrinsic value to the extent of one grain in 123½ grains. I will answer his Question in this way— If the sovereign be treated, not as gold, but as bullion, it will have one grain less of producing power; but if the sovereign be viewed, not as bullion, but as gold, its producing power will remain just the same as at present. And the reason is obvious. The only seller of new sovereigns is the Government; and if new sovereigns could only be acquired upon the condition of paying 1 per cent more for them than is now paid, that 1 per cent would necessarily limit the demand for sovereigns till they attained the value put upon them. As sovereigns, therefore, they would be as valuable as at present, while as bullion they would be less valuable. And that attains precisely the object I have in view, which is that the sovereign should be circulated in this country, but should not be melted or exported abroad.
MR. ALDERMAN W. LAWRENCEI wish to understand whether the person bringing the bar of gold to be coined will pay anything for coining it?
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERI think I have answered the question before. The person bringing the bar of gold to be coined—assuming it to be worth 100 sovereigns—would have deducted from the value 100 grains of gold; and to that extent he would pay.