HC Deb 05 June 1868 vol 192 cc1177-80

MR. MILNER GIBSON moved that it be referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills, to inquire whether the Amendments which have been introduced in the Select Committee on the Metropolitan Foreign Cattle Market Bill involve any infraction of the Standing Orders. The right hon. Gentleman said that this Bill was introduced to the House in a most imperfect form, inasmuch as its main object was not indicated by any of its clauses. He made inquiry as to the reason of this, and, after some difficulty, he was told that the reason of this clause not being introduced was, that the Notices which had been given in the Gazette of the intention of the Government to bring in this Bill would not cover the ground, and that, therefore, if the clause had been introduced, the Bill might have fallen through when brought before the Committee of Standing Orders. This clause was, therefore, not introduced till after the second reading, when it was inserted by the Select Committee. That clause required that all foreign cattle should be taken to one particular place on the Lower Thames to be slaughtered, and this prohibited the use of a number of private wharves, where the cattle trade had hitherto been carried on. This, in point of fact, would be to take away the property of persons who were now conducting their business according to law. The clause had given rise to large claims for compensation; and, as it had been introduced by a Select Committee, as it interfered with private rights, and as it contemplated objects not within the original Notices, he thought that it ought to be referred back to the Examiners.

LORD ROBERT MONTAGU

thought he had a little to complain of, as lie did not get notice of this Motion.

MR. MILNER GIBSON

said, the Notice was on the Paper, and he fixed it for to-day in order to escape the charge of delaying the Bill.

LORD ROBERT MONTAGU

contended that this could not be regarded as a Private Bill, and should not he subject to the laws which applied to Bills of that description. A Private Bill was a Bill introduced for the particular benefit of certain persons. Their benefit was, of course, the injury of others. A Committee was therefore appointed by Parliament to adjust their conflicting interests—and Parliament acted in its judicial capacity. Then a surprise, or a point suddenly raised without due notice might cause considerable injury to one of the parties, and might prevent the Committee from judging justly. Hence, the Standing Order which applied to the case. But this was a Public Bill, as a reference to Sir Thomas May's book, at pages 627, 628, and 728 would show. This was a Bill for the benefit of the country at large. It stood among the Orders for Public Bills, and could not, in any way, be regarded as a Bill for the particular benefit of any individuals. Besides which, there had been no surprise, in the matter, because, in November last year, he himself gave Notice of the clause in question, and it had appeared on the Notice Paper every Saturday since. That Notice was quite in accordance with the Preamble of the Bill. The Preamble stated that it was expedient to make a market for the sale and slaughter of cattle, and if the slaughter of cattle was out of the Order of Reference, so was their sale. But he had had no opportunity of introducing the clause before it went to the Committee upstairs, because the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Ashton(Mr. Milner Gibson) rose on the second reading, and opposed the Bill on the very ground that compulsory slaughter at the waterside was not in accordance with the recommendations of his (the Trade in Animals) Committee. He then regarded compulsory slaughter as the very principle of the Bill. But the right hon. Gentleman then said that he would not divide the House if the Bill might be referred to a hybrid Committee. The clause was then put in manuscript into "the filled up Bill." which was sent to all the petitioners against the Bill, and laid before the Committee. Nay, more; every petitioner against the Bill had alleged this very point of compulsory slaughter as the special ground of objection against the Bill. The counsel for the promoters, in opening the case, read this very manuscript clause as the very point and essence of the Bill. Every witness who was called against the Bill endeavoured to prove that the Bill would be injurious, because of the compulsory slaughter; and the wharfingers and butchers and others claimed compensation on that very ground. The learned Counsel (Mr. Vernon Harcourt), when closing his case against the Bill, rested chiefly on this very clause; but never raised the objection that the clause was contrary to the Standing Orders. It was clear, therefore, that full notice had been given and received, that there was no surprise, and that the objection was merely technical, and was raised only for the sake of delay. But what would follow? If that clause were out of the Order of Reference, the Compensation Clause, which was inserted as a corollary to it, should also be struck out; and all the evidence of the opponents which referred to it, was also out of the Order of Reference, and could, therefore, not be received by the House. He would, however, not object to the matter being referred to the Examiners, on the honourable understanding that the Bill should not be in any way delayed.

MR. MILNER GIBSON

said, he had no intention of delaying the progress of the Bill; but the course he proposed would not occasion any delay, as the Bill was not to be proceeded with until Monday week, and during next week there would be ample time for the inquiry he proposed.

Ordered, That it be referred to the Examiners of Petitions for Private Bills to inquire whether the Amendments which have been introduced in the Select Committee on the Metropolitan Foreign Cattle Market Bill involve any infraction of the Standing Orders.—(Mr. Milner Gibson.)

MR. MILNER GIBSON

then moved, in order that the persons interested might have full notice, and be able to send in their memorials to the Examiners, the addition to his first Motion of the following words— Memorials complaining of non-compliance with the Standing Orders be deposited in the Private Bill Office not later than Tuesday the 9th day of this instant June, and that the Examiner do give three clear days' notice of the sitting.

Motion made, and Question proposed, That Memorials complaining of non-compliance with the Standing Orders be deposited in the Private Bill Office not later than Tuesday the 9th day of this instant June, and that the Examiner do give three clear days' notice of the sitting."—(Mr. Milner Gibson.)

MR. DODSON

pointed out that such a Resolution was hardly necessary, as the Examiners were in the habit of giving two days' notice, and he thought it would be sufficient if the matter were left to them.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Back to