§ MR. ACLANDsaid, he wished to ask the Vice President of the Committee of Council on Education, Whether the following Statements, purporting to be made on his authority, correctly represen the present practice of the Education Department:—1. That if an application for a building grant for a National School proceed from a parish of fewer than 900 souls, the proportion of Dissenters being more than one-sixth, the Education Department suggest the adoption of a Conscience Clause for a school adequate for the entire parish, but do not insist upon the Clause being adopted. 2. That if the promoters decline the Conscience Clause they may reduce their plans to the needs of their own Church people, and receive a grant on the diminished scale. 3. That the Department will grant aid for building schools planned for as few as twenty scholars in a parish having fewer than 900 souls, but composed partly of Churchmen and partly of Dissenters. And whether the Education Department takes any, and what, measures to encourage the elementary education of a Dissenting minority in parishes in which a grant is made to a National School, and in which there is no prospect of a separate school for the use of Dissenters being adequately supported?
§ LORD ROBERT MONTAGUSir, I have given no authority for statements of the kind referred to, for when I made a full statement to the House on the subject, I thought I had done all that my duty required me to do. As regards the first Question, if the hon. Gentleman would omit the limiting words, my answer to it would be in the affirmative. As to our insisting on the Conscience Clause when building grants are applied for, that is what we do not do. When an application is made from a parish of less than 900 inhabitants, where the Dissenters amount to one-sixth, we suggest the Clause; but if it is refused, we do not insist upon it, for the promoters may themselves build the school without the grant. As to the second Question, that does not apply to places with less than 900 inhabitants. It refers to large or two-school parishes. In those cases the Churchmen may apply for a grant for themselves, and the Dissenters for a grant for themselves; but we have no such rule as regards one-school parishes—that is to say, parishes with less than 1660 900 of population. From the third Question, also, I must also omit the limiting words at the end. A grant has been given to build a school for as few as twenty children; another grant was given to build for thirty children; and a week ago I gave a grant to build a school for twenty-eight children. This was because the labouring population was so scanty. As to the limiting words at the end, the case has never arisen. In each of the instances I have mentioned, there were no Dissenters in question. Lastly, our principle is not to take the initiative, but to trust to local voluntary effort. Where a minority is very small the State cannot notice it. The right hon. Member for Calne in one of his speeches laid down this principle in the words of the old maxim of law, "De minimis non curat lex." "Where the minority is considerable the House may think it always right that it should be represented.
§ MR. ACLANDI do not understand the noble Lord as having answered my second Question—namely, whether in a parish of less than 900 inhabitants, the Dissenters not being a small minority, the Churchmen may take a smaller grant without the Conscience Clause?
§ LORD ROBERT MONTAGUI said that in a large or two-school parish Churchmen and Dissenters might have each their own school, and each might have a building grant; but in the parishes to which the hon. Member alludes of 900 inhabitants or less, where more than one-sixth of the population are Dissenters, we do not follow such a rule; and if the Conscience Clause is refused, the grant is not made.