LEAVE. FIRST READING. (Hansard, 12 February 1867)

MR. M'CULLAGH TORRENS,
in moving for leave to bring in a Bill relating to Artizans' and Labourers' Dwellings, said, that last Session he had the honour 291 of introducing a similar measure, which was read a second time without a division. It was then referred to a Select Committee, which reported unanimously in its favour. The Bill was intended to provide better dwellings for artizans and labourers; and he asked to introduce it now in the same terms as he had reported it from the Select Committee of last Session. The measure was therefore no longer his, but that of the Select Committee. It was not found possible to pass the Bill last year, and he now asked the House to re-consider the subject. The additional information which he had been able to obtain between the end of the last and the opening of the present Session led him to the conclusion that matters were getting worse rather than better, and that the want of accommodation and the amount of misery which resulted from it far exceeded all that voluntary efforts could do to afford relief. All that many benevolent and enterprizing persons like Alderman Waterlow could effect was as nothing compared to what was urgently demanded. The Industrial Dwellings Company had spent £40,000, and thereby given relief to 1,400 or 1,500 persons. At this rate the advance of £1,000,000 by the Public Works Loan Commissioners, as proposed by this Bill, would enable them to provide in one year for 35,000 people. He did not ask that that sum should be lent at once, but only tentatively; and he begged the House to remember that it was not out of the general taxation of the country that he asked the loan to be advanced. The Chancellor of the Exchequer debited himself to the amount of some £46,000,000 or £47,000,000, a portion of the thrift and savings of the working classes, and as the Government paid only 2½ per cent on that vast sum, it was not unreasonable to ask that £1,000,000 should be lent back at 3½ per cent. It was said, by way of objection, "If those dwellings will pay a remunerative interest, why not leave it to private enterprize to deal with the emergency?" But building speculations, if properly carried on, would require 8 or 10 per cent, and private enterprize sought only the sunny spots, while it left the dark spots of pestilence and death wholly unrelieved. He was prepared, however, to show that no loss could accrue to the public. Whatever sums were advanced by the Exchequer Loan Commissioners would be charged by way of mortgage on the buildings to be erected, the plans and sur- 292 veys of which would be laid before them, and they would have the security of the municipal and in London of the metropolitan rate to make up any deficiency. He proposed to adopt a plan which was in successful operation in Liverpool—namely, that houses condemned by the officer of health should be presented before the grand jury; that the owner should be allowed a reasonable time in which to rebuild them; and that if he failed to do so they should be bought by the municipal body, which should rebuild them, and after the lapse of seven years should re-sell the property. He had reason to hope that the Metropolitan Board of Works would be willing to undertake the duty which would thus be cast upon them; and he believed that no burden would be imposed on the ratepayers, since the increasing value of house property was a sufficient assurance that houses re-built by the Board would re-imburse the original outlay. The hon. Member concluded by moving for leave to bring in the Bill.

§ MR. WALPOLE
remarked that at the late period at which the hon. Gentleman brought in his Bill last Session, it was hardly possible for the Government to bestow any consideration upon it. In the general object of the Bill he, for one, most heartily concurred; but he wished to guard himself from expressing an opinion on that part of it containing an important provision relating to the property and rights of individuals, which required to be carefully looked into. With that qualification he should be happy to give his support to the Bill.

MR. J. B. SMITH
contended that it would be useless for capitalists to compete with persons who built houses and required only 5 per cent interest, and that the Bill would therefore place them in an unfair position. He thought his hon. Friend had taken a leaf out of Louis Blanc's book, and that if he began by building houses for artizans, he would end by establishing ateliers nationaux.

§ MR. LOCKE
observed, that if the hon. Member for Stockport (Mr. J. B. Smith) wished to protect persons who were anxious to spend their money in building houses there could not be the slightest objection to their doing that, and especially in neighbourhoods where better dwellings for the poor were wanted. The object of the Bill was to destroy fever nests in the metropolis, and they had the evidence of medical men, officers of the boards of health numberless, to the fact that without some 293 such Bill it was impossible that the public health could be protected. This was not the first time that a strong feeling of political economy had been brought to bear against a charitable and humane scheme for the benefit of the poor. There were spots in the metropolis which bad been condemned over and over again, situate in a cul-de-sac, where it was impossible fresh air could penetrate, and where disease generally prevailed, and it was proposed that the municipal or local authorities should have the power of condemning the houses in these localities, and seeing that proper dwellings were erected in their place. The late Government approved of the principle, and also of lending money to carry out the object. His right hon. Friend the present Secretary of State for the Home Department said he entirely approved of the Bill; and the only question was, whether the interests of private' individuals had been guarded with sufficient care. In the Committee which sat last year on the Bill this point was very carefully considered, and he believed there were ample clauses in this Bill to protect the interests of individuals. He had asked one of the directors of Mr. Alderman Waterlow's Company, whether some of their buildings in the borough paid 5 per cent, and the reply was that they paid 10. "How was that?" he inquired; and the director replied, "In consequence of the locality being near their work, so as to enable the tenants to go home to their meals." That was a strong argument in favour of removing these pestilential buildings and erecting others in their place for the working classes, instead of driving those classes to the suburbs. The working classes, like the rest of the community, objected to being driven out of the localities in which they had hitherto dwelt, and be thus cut off from those associations which they had been accustomed to enjoy. It was likewise most objectionable that they should be compelled to dwell in places at a distance from the metropolis entirely alone. It was desirable that all classes should be in proximity to one another, so that the less fortunate might profit by the example and support of those who were more affluent than themselves. These objects the Bill was well calculated to effect.

COLONEL SYKES
said, the question was not whether money should be found for building dwellings for the poor, but whether they should, with a view to the 294 public advantage, try to get rid of disease and misery. Enormous mortality was caused by people being crowded together in what were little better than dungeons. He regretted that Scotland was excluded from the benefit of the recent Act allowing loans for such improvements, for there was a sanitary society in Aberdeen which had effected great good, but which was unfortunately short of funds, and when he applied to Mr. Spearman for a loan he was surprised to find there was a clause exempting Scotland. He hoped the rents for houses thus re-built would be fixed at sums which working men could afford to pay, for in Aberdeen lodgings were provided at as low a sum as 1s. 9d. a week.

§ MR. KINNAIRD
was glad to state that the Government had consented to include Scotland and Ireland within the operation of the recent Act. He rejoiced also to find that they were prepared to give the fairest consideration to the present Bill, and he hoped it would become law this Session.