§ MR. O'BEIRNEsaid, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for War, Whether the experiments to be made as agreed to by him in the recent discussion upon the defences of our Naval Arsenals and Dockyards will be against targets of stone and iron accurately representing the forts now being erected, or which have been contracted for at Portsmouth, Plymouth, Portland, and Pembroke; and, whether he will suspend the further prosecution of the works upon the forts until the result 1567 of the proposed experiments shall be ascertained?
§ SIR JOHN PAKINGTONI have already given directions regarding the experiments to which the hon. Member refers. These will be made against forts accurately representing both the iron walls of the fort at Plymouth, and also the shields proposed for the forts in course of erection. The experiments will be made by firing from the heaviest guns now carried by any of our ships of war, and within as short a range as it is probable or possible that ships of war could approach these forts. Under these circumstances, the hon. Gentleman, I think, will admit that the experiments will be fairly made. With respect to the second part of the Question, I have no intention of suspending the works. It would be undesirable to do this, partly because the experiments will be made without any delay, and also because great inconvenience would result from the suspension of the works; while, on the other hand, if the result of the experiments should show that the shields and iron walls are not so strong as they ought to be, there will be no difficulty in so arranging the contracts as to provide for increasing their strength.
§ LORD ELCHOIf the experiments are to test the iron shields, I should like to ask whether they will be confined to iron shields alone, or whether experiments will be made as if against the section of the fort, in accordance with the suggestion I threw out during the recent debate, otherwise the test would only speak as to the strength of the shield, and would afford no evidence of the capacity of the resistance of the breast-work, girders, pillars, &c, supporting the structure. I should also like to know, whether when the right hon. Gentleman said the trials would be made with the heaviest guns now carried, he mean the heaviest guns in our service only, or intended to include those carried by vessels of other Powers?
§ SIR JOHN PAKINGTONThere is no reason to suppose that the vessels of any foreign Power carry guns heavier than our own naval gun of 12½ tons, with which I propose that the experiments should be conducted. The noble Lord is desirous that those experiments should be carried further. He cannot be more anxious than I am to carry them to the full extent, in order that the tests may be as full and fair as possible, and if my noble Friend can offer any suggestions upon this object, 1568 I shall be glad to confer with the noble Lord in private.
COLONEL SYKESDo I understand the right hon. Gentleman that the granite walls are not to have shields at all?
§ SIR JOHN PAKINGTONThere is no intention of placing iron shields on the surface of granite walls. The shields of which I am speaking, of which so much has been heard during the recent discussions in this House, are shields that fill up the embrasures of the fortifications.
§ MR. O'BEIRNEWill the experiments include a section of the forts built of granite, into which the shields are to be let? Because they would be very unsatisfactory unless some proof was ascertained of the strength of the granite fronts of the fort under fire.