HC Deb 04 April 1867 vol 186 cc1164-6

Bill considered in Committee. [Progress 26th March.]

(In the Committee.)

Clause 40 (On Retirement of Masters, the Examiners and Clerks to be entitled to retiring Pensions of the same Amount as Salary).

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. CHATTERTON)

moved the insertion of the words "or clerks," making the clause applicable to all clerks, instead of to one only, the object being, by reserving the rights to retiring pensions to the present clerks, to induce them to continue in office, rather than to have to make new appointments.

Amendment proposed, in line 27, after the word "clerk," to insert the words "or clerks."—(Mr. Attorney General for Ireland.)

MR. LAWSON

objected to the proposed Amendment, on the ground that the "clerks" were entitled to a more explicit declaration of their rights, if they possessed any.

Question put, "That those words be there inserted."

The Committee divided:—Ayes 61; Noes 45: Majority 16.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 41 (Appointment of Office of Second Assistant Registrar of the Court).

GENERAL DUNNE

moved an Amendment to the effect that both of these officers, whose duties were identical, should be paid £1,000 a year, instead of as the clause proposed, £1,200 to the one and £800 (with a prospective increase to £1,000) to the other. He saw no reason why there should be any difference in the emoluments when the duties were the same. He therefore proposed the substitution of "£1,000" for "£800."

MR. HUNT

said, that the salary of the second officer was fixed at £800 last year, under arrangements for a gradual increase to £1,000.

MR. MONSELL

asked for some explanation of the great difference between the salaries assigned to the two officers.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. CHATTERTON)

said, that it was proposed to appoint the existing officers to the new offices created under the Act, and the apparent discrepancy between the two salaries arose out of this circumstance.

MR. HUNT

observed, that the proposition was not a new one, it having been made by a previous Government.

MR. MONSELL

could not see why any difference should be made between the salaries of two officers whose duties were precisely the same.

MR. HUNT

said, it was no uncommon thing to have senior and junior officers, the senior officers having larger salaries than the others.

COLONEL FRENCH

observed, that in this case there was no such distinction as senior and junior officers.

Amendment negatived.

MR. O'BEIRNE

proposed the addition at the end of the clause of these words— Whenever a vacancy shall occur in the office of Junior Clerk the Lord Chancellor shall appoint thereto a fit person, who shall have been admitted a solicitor or attorney in one of the Superior Courts in Ireland.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. CHATTERTON)

objected.

MR. O'BEIRNE

said, he would bring up his clause on the Report.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses 42 to 87, inclusive, agreed to.

Clause 88.

SIR COLMAN O'LOGHLEN

moved the omission of Clauses 88 to 107, both inclusive. The proposal in the Bill was, that evidence in the Court of Chancery should be taken before the Examiner, in the nature of written questions and answers. What he proposed was, that all evidence should be taken vivâ voce before the Court, unless differently ordered by the Judge.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. CHATTERTON)

resisted the Amendment on the ground that it would utterly clog the business in the Chancery Courts. A discretion was left with the Court to examine witnesses vivâ voce if necessary.

SIR COLMAN O'LOGHLEN

moved that the Chairman report Progress and ask leave to sit again. The question was an important one, and it had now reached so late an hour that he thought one of two courses should be adopted. The Clauses from 88 to 107, both inclusive, should either be postponed by the Attorney General or Progress should be reported.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. CHATTERTON)

declined to postpone the clauses, and opposed the Motion for reporting Progress.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."—(Sir Colman O'Loghlen.)

The Committee divided:—Ayes 44; Noes 68: Majority 24.

SIR PATRICK O'BRIEN

moved that the Chairman leave the Chair.

After a short discussion, Motion negatived.

MR. ESMONDE

moved that the Chairmain report Progress.

After a short discussion, Motion negatived.

House resumed.

Committee report Progress; to sit again To-morrow.