§ SIR FITZROY KELLYsaid, he would beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether he is willing to postpone the Resolution touching the Reduction of the National Debt from Monday next to a future day, in order to afford time to the House and the Country to bestow a reasonable consideration upon a question of so much importance and difficulty, and a scheme of so complicated a character? He also wished to ask, whether, before any discussion is taken on that Resolution, he is prepared to lay on the table of the House a statement of the exact mode in which the £24,000,000 is at present invested?
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid, that with respect to the latter question he could remove the misapprehension under which the hon. and learned Gentleman obviously laboured. There was no investment whatever of that £24,000,000. It was what was called a book debt; a mere acknowledgment of debt on the part of the public to the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt. That £24,000,000 of book debt had been substituted for £24,000,000 of stock which was formerly held by the Commissioners, and which was cancelled upon the creation of that book debt. Consequently, it was simply a representative in another form of that old book debt, at the same rate of interest; but there were no securities to which it had any reference at all. With regard to the former part of the Question, his hon. and learned Friend had said that this was a subject of necessarily some complication, in which he quite agreed with him, though he should draw quite the opposite inference. The preliminary Resolution, which he had moved, was a Resolution according to the usual form, couched in very general terms, and giving very general powers; and it would be very difficult to engraft upon that Resolution a general discussion on the merits of the subject. He thought that if Gentlemen were disposed to say, "We object entirely to this principle of conversion of permanent debt into terminable annuities," that was a question which might conveniently be raised upon the Resolution; and, therefore, if there were any disposition to take a ground so broad as that, he should be the last person to ask the House of Commons to pass the Resolution without full opportunity of discussion. But if there was a disposition to entertain the principle of the measure at all, or under any circumstances, either as to this £24,000,000, or any part of it, or as to the further measure which was contemplated in the re-investment of dividends, and which, he thought, might require a fuller statement than he was able to give on the preceding evening, then he confessed it appeared to him that it would be greatly for the convenience of the House that any discussion that was to be taken should be taken upon the Bill, and when it was in the hands of Members, because it would describe with much more precision than the Resolution the nature of the operation, and would likewise give to Members the opportunity of raising the question in any 441 form that they pleased. Therefore, if it was agreeable to the House, he should wish to take the Resolution oil Monday, to report it on Tuesday, and to bring in the Bill immediately, and then to fix such a night for the discussion upon the Bill, taking it in the most convenient manner, as might be most agreeable to hon. Members. That was what he should ask, at the same time that he placed himself entirely in the hands of the House, and was most desirous to consult the general convenience.
§ SIR FITZROY KELLYthought that on a question of so much importance it was desirable not only that the principle, but also the details of the measure should be fully understood, and that could not be effected without discussion.
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERsaid, his intention was to intimate to the House that the Resolution would enable any Gentleman who was disposed to contest the principle to do so. He did not mean to say that by passing the Resolution the House would be bound by the principle. It was always understood that preliminary stages might be passed, if thought convenient, without any degree of assent being given either to the principle or details of the measure.
§ SIR FITZROY KELLYwas expressing simply his individual views, and had no authority to speak on behalf of any other Member.