§ SIR ROBERT PEELPerhaps it would be convenient for the House, as I have already obtained the concurrence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that I should ask the right hon. Gentleman, as the organ of the Government, a Question with respect to the subject which stands on the Notice Paper to-day in my name. I should like, with the permission of the House, to put that Question prefaced by a very few remarks, but I am altogether in the hands of the House. I think, considering the importance of the Question, and the answer given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer the other night, that the House would perhaps allow me. Sir, the Motion which stands in my name on the Paper is now well-known to hon. Members. I may be blamed because sufficient time has not been allowed to elapse between putting the Notice on the Paper, and the Motion to which that Notice refers; but I will explain how that has occurred. We—for I do not speak in my own name only, but I speak on behalf of many hon. and right hon. Members in this House—have felt that the circumstances of the case were so important, and the danger so great to the principles which were involved in the existing system of the Queen's University—namely, united secular University education for the youth of Ireland of all denominations upon a footing of complete equality—that we believed no time was to be lost in bringing the question under the notice of the House. And, even supposing I had not obtained the permission of the House to make a few remarks, such is the importance of the question that, to put myself in order, I would, if necessary, conclude by making a Motion of adjournment.
§ MR. SPEAKERUnless I am otherwise directed by the House, and unless the House desires, that there should be a departure from our ordinary rules, I must remind the right hon. Baronet of the exact state of the case. The right hon. Baronet has given Notice that at a later period of the evening, on the Motion for going into Committee of Supply, he will make a Motion upon this subject. The right hon. Baronet has the liberty, if he pleases, to change that Motion into the form of a Question; but, in putting the Question he is bound to observe the rules which are prescribed, and I must also add that it will not be in his power to do what he has just said he might do, to make a Motion to adjourn the House for the purpose of this discussion. Because he has given Notice of his intention at a later period of the evening to move an Address, he cannot now by anticipation go into that question, by moving the adjournment of the House.
§ SIR ROBERT PEELI am quite willing, Sir, to bow to your decision, but in my own justification I must say that it is at the desire of the Chancellor of the Exchequer that I rise to put this Question. I will merely say that, in consequence of the dialogue which took place between us the other night, I saw my right hon. Friend, and he informed me that there appeared to be some misunderstanding with respect to the answer which he then gave, and he told me—and it will be a great satisfaction to the House to hear it—that the Government, having seen the Notice which I put on the Paper, have been graciously pleased to yield to the general wish of the House—they have determined not to obtain the Sign Manual of the Sovereign until they have submitted the question to the judgment of the House. The Chancellor of the Exchequer will tell you so.
§ MR. SPEAKERI must remind the right hon. Baronet that this is rather an answer to the Question than the Question itself.
§ SIR ROBERT PEELThe intelligence was so gratifying to myself and other hon. Members that I could not forbear from saying that, in consequence, I believe, of this notice of mine—as the Chancellor of the Exchequer will tell you—nothing will be done to alter the Charter. ["Order, order!"] Well, then, I will ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer—Is it or is it not the case that since the Notice which 966 I placed upon the Paper the other night the Government have determined to yield to what appeared to be the wishes of the House? Will they or will they not make any alteration in the Charter of the Queen's University without first consulting the House as to the propriety of those changes?
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERSir, in the first place let me say that I think no man could blame my right hon. Friend, with the feelings which he ascribes to himself—believing that the House was in danger of being taken by surprise—for having looked for the first opportunity of interposing. That is my first answer. My next answer will not be precisely the same in form. My right hon. Friend has asked whether, since the Notice which he placed on the Paper the other night, Her Majesty's Government have determined not to make any alteration in the Charter of the Queen's University without first consulting the House as to the propriety of the change. In reply to that, I have to say that there has been no change whatever in the intentions of Her Majesty's Government since or before the appearance of the Notice of my right hon. Friend. But the Question put to me upon the former day by my right hon. Friend, if I recollect it rightly, was, whether I would lay upon the table of the House a draft of the Charter as proposed to be altered before advising the Queen to sign it. ["No, no !"] So I understood the Question. Such I believe it to be, and to that Question I must answer now, as then, in the negative. But I said at that time that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department was prepared to lay upon the table of the House at the earliest possible period the correspondence relating to this subject; and if the object of my right hon. Friend is simply to be fully informed of the advice which the Government may think it their duty to give to the Crown in this important matter, I entirely concur with him in thinking it is quite reasonable that that information should be given. I always thought that last year, when the Government came to its preliminary Resolution on this subject, the very first tiling done was to state to this House the nature of the changes which it was proposed to make. Since that time there has been much correspondence on the subject. That correspondence is not yet concluded. I believe the House will not think there is anything strange in the delay which has 967 occurred. Naturally, the communications on this subject must be undertaken by the Lord Lieutenant and the Chief Secretary for Ireland, and recently, as the House is aware, these personages have had other more pressing questions to consider than those of University education. My right hon. Friend himself will move to lay on the table the correspondence as far as it has gone, and when it is concluded, and the Government have made up their minds—not before, and are ready to announce their conclusion, they will put the House at the earliest moment in possession of the fullest information on the subject. As to the Charter, it will naturally follow the conclusion at which the Government shall arrive upon points which that Charter may embrace, and I think I may say to my right hon. Friend that he need not be in the least afraid that he will be unable in point of time to bring the subject under the notice of the House, and to challenge the Government, if he thinks fit, before the Crown has committed any formal act, but not before the Administration have given any advice they may think it their duty to give to the Crown before the Crown is committed to that formal act. It was our intention, whether we are or are not compelled by law to do so, to clearly place under the view of Parliament the opinions we hold on the subject of University education in Ireland, and the advice which in consequence of these opinions it would be our duty to give the Crown. It was and is our intention to raise the question by asking the House to vote certain sums for scholarships to be opened to candidates from the Queen's Colleges, and to any other persons entitled to be examined in the Queen's University. In that manner we thought we should bring the matter fully and clearly before the House. We entirely agree with the right hon. Baronet in thinking this question one of great importance and great difficulty. I promise the right hon. Gentleman that the Government will fully and cordially state their views on the subject to the House, and that nothing shall be done to preclude the House from fully considering the question at the proper time.
§ MR. BAXTERsaid, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, whether the Papers relating to the question of Irish University education which the Government have promised to lay on the table, will include the memorials which had been presented 968 praying that no change should be made in the present system, as well as those asking for a change?
§ SIR GEORGE GREYsaid, that there would be no objection to laying on the table the memorials referred to by the hon. Gentleman.
§ MR. LOWEAs I am very anxious, Sir, that there should not again be any misunderstanding on this subject, I wish to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer a question. Am I to understand from him that when the Government has made up its mind on this subject it will first tender advice to the Crown, and then give Parliament an opportunity of expressing its opinion? Is that to be the course adopted? Or will Parliament be asked its opinion before any advice is given to the Crown?
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUEROur first duty will be to make up our minds on the question. Nothing could be more unworthy on our part than to bring this important question before the House previous to our having made up our own minds as to the course we should pursue. It will be perfectly practical, right, and convenient that no definite proceeding shall be taken by the Crown before the House has an opportunity of expressing its opinion.
§ MR. LOWEBut will the Government give their advice to the Crown before Parliament has an opportunity of giving its opinion on the subject?