SAVINGS BANKS AND POST OFFICE SAVINGS BANK ACTS.—REPORT. (Hansard, 9 February 1866)

§ MR. AYRTON
asked the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he had any objection to lay upon the table the accounts relating to Post Office savings banks in a somewhat more satisfactory form than that in which they were now given. They appeared to show a profit of £40,000, whereas, in fact, there was a loss to that amount; for, as he understood the accounts, it appeared that the whole of the annuities and interest received from year to year was credited as income, while nothing was deducted for the depreciation of those annuities, which were terminable, and would soon come to an end. If, however, the amount of that depreciation, which was estimated at £80,000, was placed against the apparent profit, it would show a loss, instead of a profit, of £40,000. It was extremely to be regretted that the accounts were made up in such a manner that there should be room for misapprehension. Certainly, they were not presented to the House in the form adopted by joint-stock banks and other institutions which carry on business of a similar kind. It was necessary that there should be placed upon the table a proper annual account of profit and loss. Unless hon. Members saw that all charges and deductions were fairly set off against the income, they would be unable to ascertain the amount of profit and loss. He was anxious that the right hon. Gentleman should take into consideration the expediency of remodelling the form in which these accounts were presented.

MR. HENLEY
hoped that when the Bill had been brought in a reasonable time would be allowed to elapse after it was printed, so that Members might have a fair opportunity of considering it before the second reading. The matter was in some of its parts very technical.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
I am always desirous to bring forward Bills of this nature, which I have no reason to suppose would call forth much criticism, before the business of Parlia- 334 ment becomes crowded. What I will do is this. I will have the 'Bills printed, naming rather an early day for the second reading. The Bills are short, and the right hon. Gentleman will have an opportunity of looking at them; and if, on looking at them, he should think it desirable that more time should be given, I will accede to any opinion he may express on the subject. With regard to the Question put by the hon. and learned Member for the Tower Hamlets, I am not sure that I distinctly gather the precise nature of his objection to the form of the accounts, because not having that form before me I cannot lay my finger on any particular part of it, and therefore I cannot say absolutely what is my judgment as to any power of presenting the accounts in a different form. In point of fact, there will always be certain facts open to discussion with respect to funds which are represented in the form of Government Annuities; and, perhaps, there will be more room for discussions of that kind in proportion as we convert perpetual annuities into terminable annuities, because terminable annuities are not commodities suited for immediate conversion except at an unfavourable rate of interest. That consideration has hitherto prevented the Government and Parliament from attempting any large conversion of the National Debt into the form of terminable annuities. Now that we are becoming recipients on a larger scale of the savings of the people, it does seem convenient to apply more extensively this system of converting perpetual into terminable annuities. At any rate, I wish it to be understood, and borne in mind by the House, that it introduces elements of difficulty with regard to the precise computation of the value of a commodity which can only be brought into the market on unfavourable terms. It may be laid down as a principle that we should never convert into terminable any perpetual annuities, which we may be called upon to replace to meet our obligations. With respect to the expense of Post Office savings banks, I have no hesitation in expressing perfect confidence, that an investigation of figures, on a fair and just valuation of the assets of the National Debt Commissioners, and the Government savings banks, will show, notwithstanding the extensive security required, and the large number of branches all through the country, everyone of which is, in point of fact, an agency for the central Post Office in London, that we are a perfectly solvent concern. We do not seek 335 to make, and it would not be right to aim at making, a profit; what we do aim at is to give the depositing public every possible facility, and the State absolute security. With respect to the precise forms in which the accounts are now laid before the House, if the hon. and learned Member will kindly suggest to me the points which he thinks are weak and require explanation, I will take an opportunity of attending to them.