HC Deb 01 August 1866 vol 184 cc1885-7

Order for Consideration read.

Bill, as amended, considered.

LORD EDWARD HOWARD,

in moving a new clause to the effect that the managers of any school shall on receiving a youthful offender into their custody enter his name and his religious persuasion in a book to be kept for that purpose, said, that if he should receive an assurance from Government that they intended to introduce a measure which would put a stop to the terrible system of proselytizing in reformatory schools, he should withdraw his opposition to the Bill.

Clause (Book containing name and religious persuasion of offenders on entry to be kept.)—(Lord Edward Howard,)— brought up, and read the first time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the said Clause be now read a second time."

MR. WALPOLE

said, it was the intention of the Government, when a satisfactory arrangement had been entered into on this subject with the head of the Roman Catholic Church in this country, to introduce uniform clauses embodying the terms of that agreement into the Bills for the regulation not only of reformatories but also of workhouses, prisons, and industrial schools. The right hon. Gentleman the President of the Poor Law Board was now in communication in reference to this subject with the head of the Roman Catholic Church in this country; and he was prepared to give every consideration to the proposals which might emanate from that quarter. In the meanwhile, until an arrangement had been come to, it would not be convenient to deal with the subject in the manner proposed by the noble Lord opposite.

LORD EDWARD HOWARD

said, that after the explanation of the right hon. Gentleman he would take the Bill as it stood, on the principle that half a loaf was better than no bread. He begged to withdraw the clause he had proposed.

MR. KINNAIRD

protested against the charge brought by the noble Lord against the reformatory schools, that they adopted a terrible system of proselytizing. Nothing of the kind took place in those schools, which were admirably conducted, and were of the greatest benefit to the country.

MR. M'LAREN

wished it to be understood that it was only owing to the lateness of the Session that the principle of the Bill was not more fully discussed. No hon. Member must be taken to be committed to any particular religious clause.

Motion and Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. REARDEN

said, he rose to move the following clause:— That schoolmasters and schoolmistresses be appointed to every Protestant reformatory, to whom the instruction of Catholic children shall be committed until such children are sent to a school conducted in accordance with the offenders religious persuasion.

Clause brought up, and read the first time.

Motion made, and Question, "That the said Clause be now read a second time," put, and negatived.

Clause 12 (Offenders under 16 may be sent to Certified Reformatory Schools.)

MR. ALDERMAN SALOMONS

proposed to add the following words:— And no child receiving religious instruction from a Jewish minister shall be compelled to attend church or chapel, or be taught religious doctrines inconsistent with the Jewish faith.

Amendment proposed,

At the end of Clause 12, to add the words "and no child receiving religious instruction from a Jewish minister shall be compelled to attend church or chapel, or be taught religious doctrines inconsistent with the Jewish faith."—(Mr. Alderman Salomons.)

MR. WALPOLE

had no objection to the insertion of the words, but believed them to be unnecessary.

MR. COWEN

expressed the opinion that the wish of the hon. Member who moved the Amendment would be best complied with if the wealthy among the Jews would put their hands into their pockets and make a reformatory school after their own heart.

Motion made, and Question, "That those words be there added," put, and negatived.

Clause 35 (Repeal.)

MR. AYRTON

moved an addition requiring that when a child was admitted to a reformatory school at the request of its parents the State should contribute nothing to its support.

Amendment negatived.

Clause agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

Bill to be read the third time To-morrow.

House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock.