§ MR. DARBY GRIFFITHsaid, he would beg to ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether he has been correctly understood to mean that the House of Lords claim the privilege of granting Pensions out of the Public Money to their own Officers as of their own authority, without the cognizance or consent either of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Secretary to the Treasury, or the House of Commons?
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERSir, if the hon. Member and the House will favour me with their attention, I will give as clear an answer as I can to the Question; but I am not quite certain that my information is complete, inasmuch as it is not a subject with which it is the practice of any public Department to interfere. In the first place, with regard to whether the House of Lords has any claim or privilege to grant pensions. I am not aware whether the manner in which the necessary expenses of the House of Lords are defrayed has ever been the subject of any discussion between that branch of the Legislature and the House of Commons or any other body, and as to the theory on the subject, therefore, I have nothing to say; but with regard to the practice, I believe it is as follows:—The House of Lords votes or adjudges what they consider to be the necessary and reasonable expenses connected with the transaction of their business out of what is called the "fee fund." That is the rule as to the greater part of the expenses of the House of Lords. It is not, however, the rule with regard to the whole of them, for there are certain charges connected with the House of Lords which are voted annually. In the Estimates for the year now about to close the following sums were voted by this House in the ordinary manner. For the salary of the Chairman of Committees, £2,500; for the Counsel to the Chairman of Committees, £1,500; for certain expenses in the Department of the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, £2,800; 1371 and for the Serjeant at Arms, £1,500. Those are all specific charges which do not stand as a portion of any larger sum, and they are all voted in the ordinary manner. There are also specific charges which are common to both Houses, and have never been apportioned in the Estimates. They are also voted in the usual manner; but as regards the greater part of the charges for conducting the business of the House of Lords they are defrayed from their fee fund. In some years that fund is sufficient to defray the entire charges; in others it is not; but when it has been found insufficient an application has been made to the Treasury, who have placed the amount asked for upon the Estimates, and a Vote has been granted by this House, without any inquiry as to the particular manner in which it would be expended. The subject is evidently one of very great importance. We may naturally suppose that it is very much connected with the independence of the House of Lords, that its control over its own expenditure should be regulated in a particular manner. I do not enter into any discussion on that question, nor give any opinion upon it, but I will give the House information as to the facts. There was a Vote in 1859–61, for the House of Lords, of £13,000; in 1860–1, a Vote of £6,000; in 1861–2, a Vote of £7,000; in 1862–3 there was no Vote at all, the House of Lords having sufficient funds for their purpose; in 1863–4 there was a Vote of £6,000; in 1864–5 there was no Vote, and from the state of the private business in that House in the present Session it is not probable that any demand will be made for 1865–6. I am informed that the balance of the fee fund of the House of Lords in the month of February last was about £26,000.