HC Deb 26 April 1865 vol 178 cc1071-3

Order for Committee read.

Bill considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Clauses 1 to 4, inclusive, agreed to.

Clause 5 (Saving Clause as to effect of Act).


proposed to add to the end of the clause the words— Provided that nothing in this Act contained shall diminish or prejudice the allowances or rights of any chief, or head-constable, or other constable, given or reserved by the 15th section of the Police Act, 1859.


said, he wished to draw attention to the case of the Brighton old police, who had subscribed to the superannuation fund, and whose rights did not appear to be sufficiently protected, although they had been reserved in the General Police Act.


said, he thought the proviso sufficient to meet the case mentioned by the hon. Gentleman, but, if it were not, he would take care that any requisite alteration should be made.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.


then moved that the following new clauses be added to the Bill:— The liability of the police rate in counties, and of the borough fund or borough rates in boroughs, to make good any insufficiency of the superannuation fund under the eleventh section of the Police Act, 1856, or the twelfth section of the Police Act, 1859, shall commence and take effect when and as from time to time the annual income of the superannuation fund shall be insufficient to pay the charges thereon. Any fee payable to any constable appointed for any county for the performance of any act done in the execution of his duty as such constable, shall be received in such manner as the chief constable of the county shall direct, and shall be paid over to the superannuation fund. Where the superannuation funds had been in existence for a number of years the calls upon them were so great that a large number had been exhausted, and the whole of the charges were thrown upon the police rates. The object of the proposed clause was to avoid such exhaustion of the funds in all cases where it had not already occurred, by making the rates supply any deficiency when the annual income of the fund was exhausted, so that the corpus of the fund should remain intact.


said, that the question was one of considerable importance, and had been referred to by Major General Cartwright, one of the Inspectors of Constabulary, in his Report made during the present year to the Home Office. With that gentleman's able assistance tables had been drawn up in order to ascertain the present condition and probable exhaustion of the various county and borough superannuation funds. Forms had been circulated throughout the counties and boroughs, which when filled up and returned to the Home Office would afford valuable information on the subject. The forms when returned would be handed to Dr. Farr, who would make a Report upon them, and then the whole question was intended to be laid before a Commission to be appointed to consider the way in which the superannuation funds should be dealt with, and to recommend any alterations in the present system they might think it necessary should be adopted. He agreed in the propriety of the clauses proposed by the hon. Gentleman, but there would be considerable difficulty in carrying them out. The Bill was only intended to remedy some small defects in the existing Act, and he hoped the hon. Gentleman would rest satisfied with the answer he had given, that the matter was under the consideration of the Secretary of State, and would not press the clause.


said, that if the public wanted a good body of police they must not object to provide for a liberal superannuation; but he advised his hon. Friend, under the circumstances, to withdraw his proposed clauses.


said, he wished to ask what would be the nature and object of the Committee to be appointed.


stated, that the Committee, the appointment of which he recommended, would consider only the superannuation of the county, and not that of the metropolitan police.


said, he would withdraw the clause.

Clauses withdrawn.

House resumed.

Bill reported; as amended to be considered To-morrow.