§ MR. LONGFIELDsaid, he rose to call the attention of the House to the purchase by the Law Life Assurance Company of large estates in Ireland, and the results attending this acquisition of property, and to move an Address to the Crown on the subject. Some apology was due to the House for his Motion, because, as a general rule, it was not thought right for a Member of that House to avail himself of his position to call attention to the conduct of private individuals in the management of their property. It was, however, on grounds of a public character that he was now induced to bring the subject under the notice of the House, as the case to which he wished to call attention was one of those in which the power of the House to address the Crown might be usefully invoked. The conduct pursued by the Law Life Assurance Company with reference to the particular property had been productive of great misery through a large portion of the West of Ireland. The region to which he wished to direct the attention of the House was the romantic wilds of Connemara. It was a district which was formerly much more prosperous than at present it could be pronounced to be under a body of English gentlemen of high respectability and position. He did not know whether there was any Gentleman in the House connected with this Society, but if there should be he hoped it would be understood that he (Mr. Long-field) was desirous to avoid giving any personal offence in any observations he might have to offer. He wished to deal with; this altogether as an impersonal matter, but at the same time, in referring to the 747 proceedings of the Society in question, he could not help considering that they had purchased a large property improperly, and that they had abused their rights. Some years ago a gentleman of great humanity, and also of some eccentricity of character, who might be remembered by many hon. members—Mr. Richard Martin—was the owner of a very large estate in Connemara. The estate was deeply involved when he inherited it, and he was much embarrassed; but a kinder-hearted gentleman than Martin of Ballynahinch never lived. A few years since there appeared in the Daily News a very interesting series of letters from a writer who was sent out to report on the agricultural prospects of the country. He gave a very interesting account of this district of Connemara. He described that after riding a distance of forty miles through this property, formerly all belonging to one family, he arrived at Ballynahinch, the residence of the late lord, or rather lady of the domain. The lady owned the greatest number of acres possessed by any one subject of the Crown, and now there was not a single rood of property to which a descendant of the family could lay claim. The late Mr. Martin, however, had ever been a most kind and liberal landlord, beloved by his tenantry. In the year 1824 the Law Life Assurance Society was founded, composed principally of lawyers, and governed by some leading legal authorities. These great Estates gradually passed into the hands of this Society; and although they were not, technically and legally speaking, mortgagees in possession, they yet contrived to enter into receipt of the rents and profits under the clauses of their deed by means of an agent. They thus became the virtual owners of the property, and were morally, if not legally, responsible for what had taken place. They had taken the whole of the proceeds, depriving Mrs. Martin even of her jointure. In this he could not blame them; they were actuated by no personal feelings; they were an impersonal company, without feelings, merely trying to do the best they could for their shareholders. Probably the principle on which they had acted had been merely to invest their capital to the best advantage. They next proceeded to prepare the estate for sale, and the first thing they did was to serve a number of ejectments on the tenants, a policy which they pursued with very little consideration. It must be admitted that the tenants were not of a very desirable class. They were 748 for the most part without capital, though he believed that if favour had been extended to them, many of the tenants would have become useful and profitable servants to their landlords. The estate was prepared for sale, and it was purchased in 1852. It consisted of about 200,000 acres of land, and the number of tenants was 827. He was not aware that the estate was ever offered for sale publicly in Ireland. It was bought in by the Law Life Society under a private contract by means of trustees for something like £1 per acre, for a sum which was said to be due to the Society. Having placed the Society in possession of the property, he would proceed to trace their management of it during the twelve years which they had been the owners of it; and he would show that from year to year the property had been most fearfully mismanaged; that the number of evictions had been enormous; that no encouragement whatever had been given to the tenants; and that the result had been that the acquisition of land by this wealthy Society had been a curse to that part of the country. What made the matter worse was that the Society had not the slightest right to become the purchasers of estates in Ireland. They were a society or fraternity having perpetual succession, but they had not the slightest right to become possessors of estates. From the earliest times the acquisition of property by corporations, or those who possessed a corporate succession, had been discouraged by the Legislature. The Statutes of Mortmain prohibited the acquisition of estates by religious bodies, and an Act passed in the reign of Richard II. extended the prohibition to purchases made for guilds, fraternities, and other societies of a similar description. He held that the Law Life Society having become purchasers of the Martin property by an evasion of the law, the Crown might seize upon the land and confiscate it. Not many years ago the Crown seized upon property acquired by another Insurance Company, and it might pursue the same course in the present instance. It would readily be believed that the purchase of the Martin estates by the Law Life Society had proved most injurious to the country, for of all absentee landlords a body of persons animated by a corporate spirit, never visiting the property, but merely receiving the rents, and managing the estate by a solicitor in London and an agent in Ireland, was by far the worst. Feeling that they had acted 749 contrary to law, the Law Life Society in 1854 sought to obtain an Act to facilitate their dealing with the estate. Power was given to them to lend and advance money on the security of freehold, leasehold and other property in Great Britain and Ireland, He need hardly point out, however, that power to lend money upon security did not enable the Company to purchase property. Again, in 1863, after the mismanagement of the estate had be- come notorious, after several attempts had been made to compel a sale, after it was well known that the Society were owners of land contrary to law, another Act was got enabling them to sue and defend all actions in their own name, instead of the names of trustees, and to have them properly vested successively in trustees whenever nominated, without payment of stamp or succession duties. That Act gave them extraordinary powers and privileges — powers and privileges not possessed by private owners—but it did not really enable them to purchase land; so that, according both to the old Acts and to the new, they were not the legal owners of the Martin property. He had already hinted at the manner in which they had performed the duties of proprietors. Since 1852, as appeared from a Return recently laid before the House, they had prosecuted in the Civil Bill Court alone no fewer than 191 ejectments, affecting about a fourth or a third of all the tenants on the estate. The total number of defendants was 735. This Society, numbering amongst its members some of the highest lawyers in the land, having contrived to escape the ordinary burdens on property, had endeavoured to avoid all local charges. As managers: of the property they had winked at the tenants falling into arrears with their county rates, and when they purchased the estate it was found that the arrears amounted to about £1,000 for county rates, and that most liberal Company sought to place the debts due from their tenants upon the county at large. They traversed the presentment which was made. The grand jury considered it unjust that the rest of the county of Galway should pay the arrears of the tenants of the Law Life Company's estate after they had evicted tenants who were able to pay— although, perhaps, not very willing. The Law Life Society again attempted to evade the obligation, but the county was successful, and the Society were unable to get the county to pay their rates. It was clear 750 that the Society was as much disposed to evade its local obligations as the succession and stamp duties. These, however, were but minor matters, With an enormous territory under their control, they had disregarded their duties as owners of land, and set an evil example to other owners. From a Return which the House ordered to be printed on the 26th April, 1864, it would be seen that they were utterly unfitted to manage their property, and it would be a great blessing to the country if they could be compelled to part with it. Dr. Brodie, the Poor Law Inspector to the Commissioners, in his Report, dated the 21st November, 1861, said—
About a mile and a half from Clifden, in the townland of Derrygimla, on the Law Life property, I remarked some fences or embankments partially raised; and seeing no men at work I inquired the reason, and was informed by one of the men who had been employed on the work that he and five others were engaged at it at so much per perch (1s. 6d), and that having worked eight days, they received 15s. for their labour, or at the rate of 3¾d. per day for each man; and that they were compelled to give up the work. In the Bunowen division I saw some men employed in making fences: they informed me they were receiving 10d. per day, and spoke in the highest terms of their landlord and employer, Mr. Lyons. The poorer tenants require indulgence from their landlords in the payment of the rents. There is a fine field for doing good, for the exercise of benevolence, and for establishing a high claim to public and private gratitude, in the drainage and improvement of the land. With good management the outlay will prove remunerative. The Law Life Assurance Company own property to the extent of over one fourth the whole valuation of the Clifden union, and it is estimated that they received a rental of £7,000 a year. Much is expected from this body. The Company is expected to set an example of judicious liberality and enlightened philanthropy to the other property owners in the district. Let us hope that they will no longer delay doing so.In the same Return he found the following most extraordinary resolution, which was passed at a meeting presided over by the agent of the society. At that meeting a letter from Mr. Lyons, a landed proprietor, was read, suggesting that some; means should be taken for providing the poor with a better supply of fuel. That letter was highly approved of, and the following resolution was passed:—That the agent of the Law Life Assurance Company he communicated with on the subject, sending him a copy of Mr. Lyons's admirable letter, with the view of ascertaining what amount that company, being the chief proprietors of the locality, would undertake to subscribe towards the purchase of fuel as proposed.He now came to two letters which did credit to the writers. The first of them 751 was from the Poor Law Commissioners to Sir Robert Peel, and the other from the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Home Department. On the 22nd November the chief clerk to the Poor Law Commissioners wrote as follows:—The expectation that an example will be promptly given by the Law Life Assurance Company, who possess a great part of the property of the Clifden Union, if is to be hoped will not be disappointed. Mr. Robinson, the agent, which manages the property on behalf of the company, is chairman of the Board of Guardians of the Clifden Union, and must be well acquainted with the circumstances of the district. This is the lame gentleman who transmitted a memorial for assistance from the Government, which appeared in the newspapers a few days since.To that letter the following reply was sent by direction of the Home Secretary:—Whitehall, 2nd December, 1861.Sir,—I am directed by Secretary Sir George Grey to request that you will, at the earliest opportunity, bring under the notice of the managing direction of the Law Life Assurance Company the enclosed copy of a letter addressed by the Poor Law Board in Ireland to the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant. Sir George Grey has received several private communications from Ireland, which he does not feel he should be authorized in transmitting to you as official documents, but which concur in the expression of opinion that the resident agent of the Law Life Assurance Company has not shown the disposition which might have been expected from a gentleman representing a company possessed of an estate of vast extent in Galway, to take an active part in promoting local efforts for the relief of the poor in that district, while he appears to have taken a prominent part in appealing to the Government for assistance. Without entering on the question of whether such assistance may, or may not, hereafter become necessary, it must be obvious that it is of the greatest importance that the first and chief reliance should be placed on local efforts; and it is gratifying to be assured that many of the landed proprietors in the West of Ireland are exerting themselves honourably and successfully in adopting measures to avert, or mitigate, the apprehended distress. Sir George Grey is far from assuming, from the facts already before him, that the conduct of Mr. Robinson may not be susceptible of satisfactory explanation; but he cannot doubt that the managing direction will share, the anxiety which he himself feels, that no suspicion should exist as to their desire that their agent should be one of the foremost in promoting every practicable scheme of local benevolence, and should heartily co-operate with other landowners in the exertions which they are making; and he entertains the fullest confidence that this subject will receive the prompt and serious attention of the directors.—I am, &c.,(Signed) "H. WADDINOTON.To D. S. Bockett, Esq.,Law Life Assurance Company.The demand for relief at that time was very urgent, and, owing to the pressure 752 from the Home Secretary, the Society could no longer avoid coming forward. On the 20ih December Mr. Bockett wrote to Mr. Waddington, stating that the Law Life Society had put £200 at the disposal of Mr. Robinson, to be applied in the purchase of fuel for distribution amongst the poor of the districts in which their estates were situated, either gratuitously or at reduced prices, as he should deem best, except that out of the above £200 they had directed that £20 be paid to the Clifden Fuel Committee, and £20 to the Oughterurd Committee. He believed—and to the credit of Ireland be it spoken—that this wealthy Society were the only landlords in Ireland to whom the Secretary of State was compelled to address a remonstrance and to complain of their tardiness, in comparison with the other landlords in that district, in adopting measures for the relief of the distress. Having shown from public documents what was the character of the management of the Society's estate, he would now refer to other testimony to the same effect. He held in his hand two private communications. Those documents emanated from tenants on the land, who were thoroughly acquainted with the subject on which they were speaking. For obvious reasons he would not give their names to the House, but he was prepared to guarantee their respectability and their integrity. In one of those documents was a list of forty-three tenants who had, with in the last ten days, emigrated from the district. There were many more whose passages to America were paid, but who could not as yet leave the country. The cause assigned for that emigration was the severity and persecution of both agent and landlords. The document went on to say that the tenants received no relief except a few pounds of turnip seed, for which they were charged double price in six months afterwards—that a vast number of houses had been thrown down during the last year — that no such things as leases were given; but that every year a fresh agreement was signed by each tenant, who paid 2s.. 6d. for signing the paper. It was impossible to deny that such a district did not offer a very promising field for tenants. A tenant from year to year had a tenure of an uncertain duration. Still that tenure might last for a long time, but the tenants of the Law Life Assurance Company were obliged to sign a fresh agreement every year. What, he would ask, could the House expect from a society of lawyers, placed as 753 landlords under such circumstances? He was prepared to prove the facts he had Stated before a Committee of the House, Another gentleman, writing on the 12th of May, 1861, stated —There is so much poverty and misery in this country that I hardly know where to begin to describe it to you. For many years past the tenants on the Law Life property have had some stock to pay their rents with; now they have none. Since I came to this country, now nearly five years, I have seen in the fair of Roundstone, On the 25th of March, as many as 300 each on the fair green, but on the 25th of March last, I do not think there were more than thirty. To show you still more, the Law Life has had to large townlands in their own hands close by me ever since I came here; Letterdife and Rossrow, more than 3,000 acres which they let out fur grazing; and other years at this time they had about 200 cattle taken into graze, and this year I am certain they have not thirty. The houses are of loose stones, put together without clay or mortar, I have often said to the tenants on the Law Life property, 'Why do you not make your houses more warm and comfortable, and make a few fields round you houses, in which to grow carrots, parsnips, turnips, and cabbages for your families in the winter, when you find that this oft-cultivated land still continues to rot your potatoes?' Their answer was, 'And if I done that same, perhaps I would only have it ope year, for either my "rint" would be raised, or some one else would fancy it, and I would be put out There are no cow-houses or pig-houses, or stables; in Connemara those who are fortunate to possess a few beasts, cattle, pigs, or sheep, during the whole of the winter keep all in the same cabin with their tamily, and in the same apartment, but were I to write for a week, I could not tell you of half the misery of this country. If the Law Life goes on a little longer as it is doing now, no one will be able to live in this country. The small tenants are going fast, and those that are a little better off, must soon follow. Since the Ballinahinch estate became the property of the Law Life Society, they have had as many as 1,000 ejectments tried at one quarter sessions at Oughterard. The farm I now hold, Toombeola, was formerly let for £27 a year. I took it in the year 1860 at a rent of £60, including all rates and taxes. The first year I held it, I laid out £150 upon it, between houses and land, and since that time I have laid out upon improvements (permanent improvements) more than £30 a year; and now Messrs. Bockett and Robinson have offered me a lease at £70 a year, and I to pay all rates and taxes, which would make my rent something like £75 or £76 a year; my last rates were £4 4s. 4½d. Before I took my farm it had been waste, and in the hands of the Society for some eight or nine years, consequently it was in a dreadful state when I got it, just one sheet of dirt and water and bog holes. Whenever any lands or houses fall into the hands of the Society they never do anything to keep them up or improve them. I must tell you that all the money they allowed me for all I have laid out on my house and land was £30. I have no road over which I can drive a car, and they will not allow 1s. to make one—fences that the agent promised to make three years ago between me and the adjoining village or townland, have 754 never been touched yet. There are petty sessions held at Roundstorie and Carna once every fortnight, and sometimes in the summer there will be as many as thirty to forty summonses tried at each, and all, nearly all, for trespass. You might see poor creatures travelling some five, some ten, and some fifteen miles to these sessions to prove or defend their cases, and that is where the swearing goes on, and a little resident magistrate telling the poor things that he does not believe one word they are swearing. It was only the other day (last Monday) that I told the agent that it was unjust to think of giving mo a lease at £70 a year for twenty-inn' years, and I to pay all rates and taxes, and the country coming down at such a rate. 'Well,' said he, 'don't take it.' But you perceive that I cannot go on improving without a lease, and I hardly know what to do. I wish I had never come to this country. The Law Life will not give a lease at a fair price. I have not time to say more now, but I have not told you of hall the misery of this country.All this showed a state of things really lamentable — the result of twelve years' management of an Irish estate under a wealthy English Society, who had been permitted to acquire the land in contravention of the law. They had abused the power which they possessed, and the estate, so far from improving, had been becoming worse. Such being the state of things it would be in the power of the Crown to do what it did in 1833 under similar circumstances. At that time the University Life Assurance Society, contrary to the provisions under which they were allowed to lend money, purchased lands in Staffordshire, and letters patent were issued to Commissioners to investigate the matter, and if the society had purchased the lands then to seize them. That Commission was actually executed, lie had no desire to see matters curried to such a length in the present instance, and He hoped that the effect of the discussion in that House would be to cause the Law Life Society to see that they could not be permitted to retain any longer the proprietorship of this estate, He believed that the moral pressure, which had induced them to give £200 for the relief of the distress, would also induce them to surrender up the estate for sale in a reasonable time, and all that he was anxious for was that the property should pass away from persons who had acquired it improperly. He concluded by moving an address to the Crown on the subject to which he had called the attention of the House.
§ LORD JOHN BROWNEsaid, he would not express any opinion as to the legal authority of the Law Life Assurance Company over the estates in question, but would merely observe that if they were 755 acting illegally either the Government or any private individual might call them to account without the intervention of that House. Neither would he go into the general question, whether it was desirable that any large English company should hold property in Ireland; hut he would explain the exact circumstances of the case which had been brought under the notice of the House. Some years before the famine the Law Life Assurance Company lent large sums of money as a first charge on these estates—for there were two estates; other parties lent money as a second charge; the interest of the second charges was not duly paid, and those who had the second charge put the estates into Chancery. From the moment they got into Chancery things went from bad to worse, and it became unavoidable that the estates should be sold in the Incumbered Estates Court. But it was not the Law Life Assurance Company which either put the estates into Chancery or brought them into the Incumbered Estates Court, but those who had the second charge. In that state of affairs, the condition of Ireland being so bad, it soon became apparent that no one would buy the estates. At that time estates were sold in Ireland for a mere song. He recollected one property, the Ordnance value of which was from £260 to £270 a year, which was put up for sale over and over again without finding a bidder, and at last was sold for £1,000, or less than four years' purchase. Now, there was a sum of £282,000 due to the Law Life Society at that time upon the two estates, and it was probable, had the estates been then put up for sale, they would not have realized more than one-fourth of that amount, and it was not to be supposed that any society would be justified in making such a sacrifice as three-fourths of the money due. But since that time the Company had been always willing to sell the estates either together or in lots to suit purchasers. The best proof that the price asked was not absolutely prohibitory, and that the Company really desired to sell, was that they had already sold £80,000 worth of the property, and but for some bad seasons of late they would have sold a much larger portion. Then the character of the Company as landlords had been attacked. Now he had every opportunity of seeing and hearing how the Mayo estate, a property of about £3,000 a year, was managed, and he believed that very few properties in Ireland be- 756 longing to absentees were better managed. Moreover, he knew the agent, Mr. Robinson well. He was not an Englishman as had been alleged, but an Irishman. He belonged to an old Sligo family, and was an energetic, straightforward, just, and kindhearted man, who was popular among the tenants. It had been said that the rents had been raised, and that the property was now let above its real value. Probably the rents had been increased, for this had been the case on every estate as better times had come. But he had authority for stating that the rental of the estate in his county was not so high as it stood before the famine, while the Company paid all the rates and taxes. As an instance, a farm formerly let at £37 a year, the tenant paying a portion of the taxes, was now let for £30, the Company paying all the taxes. Besides this the Company had gone largely into drainage, road making, building of walls, fences and works of that description, not so much for the purpose of improvement as for giving employment. During the distress twenty tons of meal were given away or sold to the tenantry at reduced" prices; coal was supplied at half its cost; and subscriptions had been made to the relief committees. So much for the Mayo property. He knew but little of that in Galway, but during the last five years the sum of £7,000 had been spent in relief works of various descriptions, and he challenged the hon. Members for Galway and Mallow to point out an instance in which a landed proprietor, with estates of the same size, had spent as large a sum upon similar works. Then in support of the charge against the Company, an ejectment return had been relied on; but what should have been asked was not how many such notices had been served, but how many had been actually carried out by the removal of the parties off the estate. The notices entered furnished no criterion of the number actually enforced. In Galway the rundale system of holding was very much in use—a piece of mountain ground being let to a number of persons as joint tenants. These persons paid their rent separately, and if it was desired to get rid of one, it was necessary to go through the form of proceeding against the whole. The system was a bad one, but it accounted for a large proportion of the ejectment notices. In the county Mayo, it appeared that the total number of ejectments entered on an estate of £3,000 per annum, during a period of between twelve and thirteen years, 757 only amounted to twenty-four. Of that number no further proceedings were taken in five cases. In six the decree was taken out but not acted upon; and one was in duplicate—which reduced it to twelve. Of that number one was the case of a man who was ejected, but immediately restored, and was still in possession of the property. Nine were in arrears for rent, in one case to the extent of £111; and one who held a joint tenancy with his father was ejected for assaulting the agent for remonstrating with him for having done something against the rules of the estate, but his father had ever since retained possession of it; and the other was the case of a man who prevented the tenants from repairing the Clare Island Pier, which was ordered for the purpose of giving employment. When Dr. Brodie visited the estate in Galway, on the 21st November, he declared there was no distress, and food was plentiful and selling at reasonable prices; but he anticipated great distress for want of fuel, unless immediate steps were taken by the parties locally interested to obtain a supply of coal to be sold at reasonable prices. It, however, appeared that at that time a cargo of coal was expected. On the previous day, the 20th November, there was an ordinary meeting of the Clifden Board of Guardians, and after they had disposed of the ordinary business of the Board they formed themselves into a Committee to consider the question, and the charge against Mr. Robinson was that though he had signed the memorial to the Government agreed to by the meeting of which he was the chairman, some time previously, asking for public assistance, he absented himself from a meeting which proposed that local efforts should be made for the same object. He did not understand the sneers that had been cast against him for asking for public assistance, It was not the first time it had been done in Ireland, and he should like to know how many Members, English, Irish, and Scotch, had not done the same thing in order to get their respective constituents relieved in some shape or other in the remission of some tax, which was pretty much the same thing. As the hon. Member for Galway, who moved for the Return, did not intend to found such a charge against Mr. Robinson, it was not necessary for him further to enter into it. The insinuation that Mr. Robinson purposely absented himself from that meeting was most unjust. The correspondence showed that the meeting referred to was an impromptu 758 meeting, and there was no intention o holding it but for Dr. Brodie's visit. Moreover Mr. Robinson could not by possibility have known of the meeting, and it should he home in mind that at that very time Mr. Robinson was engaged in a similar object on Clare island, he having gone there to inquire into the condition of the people, and to make arrangements for employing them and supplying them with fuel during the winter. Now, what had been done by those in the locality who had brought these charges against Mr. Robinson? Only one-fourth of Clifden Union belonged to the Law Life Assurance Company, and what, he asked, had been done by the owners of the remaining three-fourths of the Union? If they subscribed anything they had hid their light under a bushel, and had taken care not to let the public or Mr. Robinson know what they had done. All he could see of a subscription on the occasion was what was contained in a letter from Dr. Lyons of Dublin. Dr. Lyons suggested that £100 or £150 should be raised, and he expressed his readiness to contribute his share, or even above it, but it appeared that the Committee abstained from putting their hands into their own pockets because they were waiting for the Society to come forward and to set an example of "judicious liberality and enlightened philanthropy" to others in the district. All, however, they did was to direct the clerk to write a letter to the Company, informing them of the resolution that had been agreed to, and calling upon them to supply the necessary funds, amounting to £200, with which to enable the committee to carry out their good intentions. The Company had only a small property in that part of the Union, and it was but natural they should expect others to make an effort with them. The Company objected to their money being spent on the whole of the Union, but they handed over the amount named to Mr. Robinson to be divided in the proportion they named. For some time before this the Company had been in communication with Mr. Robinson on the best mode of meeting the contemplated distress, and relief works had been begun before anything was said about it. Dr. Brodie, in his Report, said he saw some of the works partially executed; and it was right the House should know why it was the works were stopped, and how it was the men earned but 3¾d. per day, and it would have been better if he had written to 759 Mr. Robinson for an explanation before he embodied it in his Report. Mr. Robinson was anxious to employ the people as much as possible on their own holdings, and he set them at task work at the ordinary rate of remuneration; but the people objected to task work, and insisted on day work. They were then in a position to stand out if they did not get their own terms, because, as Dr. Brodie stated, the distress had not then begun. He hoped his hon. Friend the Member for Galway would favour the House with the amount of money subscribed by the other owners of property. He did not mean with the amount received by the Clifden committee, for no doubt they had received subscriptions from many sources, including that estimable body the Society of Friends, who never failed to send money to any part of Ireland in which there was great distress. The Law Life Society expended £200 for fuel alone, independently of the employment which they gave; and if the other proprietors had subscribed in the same proportion they would have given £600. The Secretary of State, in a communication to Mr. Bockett, said he had received private letters commenting on the conduct of Mr. Robinson. If the right hon. Gentleman considered those letters to be private he ought to have kept them private; but as they were mentioned in the Parliamentary papers, he ought to publish them, in order to give Mr. Robinson an opportunity of showing up the mendacity of- his secret assailants. His hon. and learned Friend the Member for Mallow said he had the greatest confidence in his correspondents, who were tenants on the property, and who had written to him, but whose names he did not like to state; but the Parliamentary Return from which the hon. and learned Gentleman had quoted showed the extraordinary inaccuracy of his correspondent's statement on the subject of the thousand ejectments at one session, for by the Return it appeared that since the Law Life Society became owners of the estate there had been only 191 ejectments against 700 people. [Mr. GREGORY: The one thousand ejectments occurred in a year not included in the Return.] If these ejectments occurred in 1851 they occurred before the Law Life Society got possession of the estate. [Mr. GREGORY: They were mortgagees in possession.] He contended that no charge could he justly laid against the Law Life Society, except that of their being absentee 760 proprietors in company with the owners of a large portion of the land of Ireland, including much of his own county. No doubt absenteeism was one of the great evils of Ireland. There was no greater. It was the chief cause of the misery and the backward condition of that country. He believed it would be better to have a very indifferent resident landlord than the best absentee proprietor; but that was a matter which the House of Commons could not deal with. In this free country we could not say that a man must live in a particular place; and he believed the inevitable result of the forced sale of those estates which the hon. and learned Member suggested would be that they would fall into the hands of other absentee proprietors, who would not manage them half as well as the Law Life Society did. In consequence of the successive bad seasons which had been experienced in Ireland, the present would be a bad time to force a sale of land in that country, and he had heard that on those portions of the estates which the Law Life Society had sold the rents had been nearly doubled, in addition to the tenants being obliged to pay the poor rates and cess. If the remaining portions of the estates were sold now they would be bought by land speculators, by land jobbers or land sharks, as they were called, who would double the rents and sell their purchases to other capitalists, who would be 10th to reduce the rental on what they had bought. Under such circumstances, the condition of the tenants would be very much worse than it was tinder the Law Life Society.
§ MR. MURRAYsaid, that as a director of the Law Life Society, he wished to express his regret that instead of attacks being made in that House, founded on information furnished by correspondents whose names were not mentioned, it would have been much better to have communicated the facts to the Directors, and in the first instance to have ascertained their correctness. The Society desired to do everything in its power to improve the condition of its tenants. The Society had already spent thousands in constructing roads, in aiding charities, and in erecting a church on their property; it had done everything a resident landlord could do, and a great many things which no absentee proprietor did to make their tenantry happy. The Directors had never received any complaint from any tenant, and if there had been any complaint instead of these anonymous letters—
§ MR. LONGFIELDsaid, that the letters were not anonymous; the writers had all signed their names; and though he had not read them to the House he had made himself responsible for the respectability and trustworthiness of the writers,
§ MR. MURRAYsaid, the letters were anonymous as far as the House was concerned. When the hon. Gentleman read an extract from Dr. Brodie's report, it would have been but candid if he had read the whole of Mr. Beckett's letter in reply, and which was considered satisfactory by the Secretary of State in 1861. About the same time the Clifton Fuel Fund Society Bent a vote of thanks to the Law Life Association for their assistance: when the next season of distress came, in May, 1863, the Society's solicitor had written to the local agent, some days before the communication from the Home Secretary had been received, directing the agent to provide employment for the tenants in order to alleviate the distress. From that time to the present no complaint had ever reached the Society so far as he was aware. It had been said, "Sell the estates;" but it was not so easy. If the hon. arid learned Member for Mallow would find a buyer, he for one should be thankful. The hon. Gentleman, no doubt, knew that joint-stock companies were beginning to look after landed estates in Ireland, and knowing this and seeing repeated notices in the paper, from February last to the present time against the Law Life Society, he began to think they had something to do with the idea of a joint-stock company wishing to buy these estates. The Society had no disposition to retain the estates, they had been an annoyance and not a pleasure, and if any of the hon. Gentleman's friends were willing to become purchasers, the estates were for sale at a fairvaluation.
§ MR. LONGFIELDsaid, he bad had no communication directly or indirectly with any persons anxious to purchase property in Ireland, and he had brought the subject under the notice of the House without the smallest reference to any-such object.
§ MR. GREGORYsaid, when the notice of his hon. Friend was put upon the paper, he had put himself in communication with gentlemen upon the spot for the purpose of ascertaining whether there was any foundation for the complaints made of the oppressive conduct of the Law Life Assurance Company in the 762 management of their Irish property. He had no desire to join in a cry against the owners of any estate. He should be very glad to have received favourable reports of the management of the Society; but he was bound to say that he had received a great number of letters from landowners and others of the highest position, and not one of them was favourable to the management of the Society, The accounts in question proceeded from landowners who were as high Conservatives as any Members of that House, and it was impossible that he could disregard them. So far from there being the ideal paradise in Mayo which the noble Lord the Member for Mayo had depicted, one gentleman wrote that in the summer, when the Society was said to have behaved with so much munificence, he was himself obliged to feed many of their tenants. He had also obtained a Return from the Clerk of the Peace of Galway, which showed that since the Law Life Society had had to deal with the management of the estates in Gal-way, there had been 3,158 ejectments. In reply to the noble Lord, who said that persons purchasing land from the Company generally raised the rents, be might further state that he had received a letter from a gentleman of undoubted veracity, in which he said that those persons who had purchased from the Company had not, as was alleged, raised the rents of the tenants save in rare instances; whereas the Society, instead of having simply raised their own rents somewhat above the low ebb at which they stood at the time of the famine, had, as he was informed, increased them in many instances to more than double the rate of the Ordnance valuation, which afforded a good test of what land was really worth, rents in general varying some 25 per cent over that valuation. Now, as to the liberality of the Society which had been so praised. On the 24th October, 1861, a meeting was held, over which Mr. Robinson, the agent of the Law Life Assurance Society, presided, at which a resolution was agreed to setting forth the great destitution which existed in the western districts of Galway. Mr. Robinson wrote that famine, with all its concomitant horrors, was inevitable. On the 21st November Dr. Brodie was sent down to see what was going on in the way of relief in that part of the world, and he reported at that time, one month after it had been declared that famine was inevi- 763 table, that nothing was doing by the Law Life Assurance Society. The agent was authorized, they say, to give employment; but how does Dr. Brodie describe that employment and its remuneration. He says the men were employed in making ditches, at that inclement season of the year, badly clad, with no fuel or food to return to, at 3½d. per day. It was not till the 20th of December the solicitor of the Law Life Assurance Society said that they had put £200 at the disposal of Mr. Robinson for the purchase of fuel, and made arrangements for the employment of useful labourers at 1s. 1½d. a day, and that was only done by the pressure and remonstrance of the Home Secretary. He remembered the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland saying to him in that lobby that their conduct was atrocious. He remembered it well. He, for one, trusted that the Law Life Assurance Society would fulfil their intention of selling their land as soon as possible. It was said it would be a satisfaction to themselves, and he was sure that it would be a satisfaction to that part of the world, from which he trusted they would soon be severed.
§ SIR ROBERT PEELsaid; that as he had been so pointedly alluded to by the hon. Member for Gal way, he felt bound to say a few words on the subject, although after the able statement of his noble Friend the Member for Mayo (Lord John Browne), it was hardly necessary that he should do so. It was true that in 1861 he had to pass through the county in which the property alluded to was situated, and he upon that occasion heard that the estates of the Society were very badly managed. The statements on the subject came, he believed, principally from his hon. Friend the Member for Galway, who told him that the tenants on those estates had a standing notice to quit always hanging over their heads; that was to say, that they were not only yearly tenants, but that, at the expiration of each year, they might be called upon to quit without further notice. [Mr. GREGORY: I never heard that until the other day, and I never spoke about it to the right hon. Gentleman in my life.] Now, that statement he believed to be wholly unfounded. The tenants of the Society certainly were yearly tenants, but they were entitled to have six months' notice, and that would be the case with any property in" the hands of a company or association desirous of selling their 764 property. There could, he understood, be no doubt that the Law Life Society held the property against their will, and that they were all through anxious to meet with a purchaser for it. He believed that it could not but have struck hon. Members that a more irregular discussion had never been brought before the House. His hon. Friend the Member for Galway had referred to a variety of letters which he had received. He would not term them anonymous, but the hon. Member had only distinctly referred to one, and that was the instance of a shopkeeper in Galway, who took a portion of the property from the Law Life Assurance Company at a rental of £12 a year, and who was deprived of the land at the end of three years without obtaining any advantage from the money which he had expended upon the land during his occupation. No one could give better evidence upon the question as to the management of property in Mayo than his noble Friend the Member for the county, and his noble Friend had completely replied to the arguments of the hon. Member for Mallow. He believed he was right in stating that, out of the very large property held by the Law Life Assurance Company, they had sold land to the value of about £80,000. He believed, also, that in every instance the rental of the land disposed of had been more than doubled. The tenants of the property which had been sold had actually come to Mr. Robinson, the agent of the Company, or had written to the Committee in London, and had urged the Company not to sell the property, because the value of their tenancy would become very much deteriorated by a change of landlords. He desired to allude to another point, and that was the question of ejectment. The House was in possession of Returns upon the subject, moved for by the hon. Member for Galway himself; but the hon. Member had not taken his figures from those Returns, but had referred to ejectments which had taken place two years anterior, and the House was consequently deprived of the opportunity of testing the accuracy of his figures. In the Return which was before the House, they would find that the ejectments entered and the number of defendants at the suit of the Law Life Assurance Company were remarkably few as compared with the number throughout the whole of Ireland. He believed that in the whole of Ireland the ejectments had perhaps exceeded 6,000 in number, but in 1863 the defendants in cases 765 of ejectment at the suit of the Law Life Assurance Company only numbered thirty-five. To properly appreciate the difference it was necessary for the House to bear in mind that the property of the Law Life Assurance Company in Ireland exceeded 130,000 acres, and that it was situated in a very remote and impoverished district. In 1861 he had received very serious accounts of the distress—he might almost say famine—which existed in the western parts of Ireland, and with the full concurrence of the noble Viscount at the head of the Government he paid a visit to that district for the purpose of ascertaining the real state of affairs. On that occasion he traversed a good portion of the property of the Law Life Assurance Company, and his impression was that the distress existing among the tenants on that property was greater than elsewhere. On returning to Dublin he did not hesitate to-write to his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department, by whom a letter was written to the Law Life Assurance Company. The result was that the Company not only sent out instructions to their local agent to obtain immediate employment for the labourers upon the estates, but also sent £200 to be expended in the purchase of fuel, and to be devoted to the benefit of the poor. He believed that the Law Life Assurance Company acted on that occasion as liberally and as generously as could be expected of them, and that their conduct during that period of severe pressure and want would bare comparison with the behaviour of any of the other landlords in that part of the country. He would appeal to the hon. Baronet the Member for Galway in confirmation of that opinion. He must say that he believed that the discussion had been brought forward in an unusual manner, for the purpose of creating dissatisfaction and a feeling of hostility against a Society which held a vast quantity of land in Galway and Mayo against their own will, and who were prepared to sell the land at the present moment if any persons would come forward and offer them an amount at all adequate to its value. He understood that the hon. Gentleman the Member for Mallow did not intend to take any further steps with regard to the matter, but that he was content with the discussion which had already been elicited; but he did hope that when the hon. Gentleman took part in any future discussions of a similar nature he would abstain from in- 766 dulging in criticisms upon the condact of individuals or companies unless they were based on a better foundation than could he claimed for his remarks that evening, He confessed that at first his opinion had been similar to that entertained by the hon. Member for Galway, but on a fuller examination he became convinced that his opinion was unfounded, and that the Company were prepared to do everything which was consistent with their duties as landlords.
§ SIR THOMAS BURKEsaid, he wished to bear testimony to the exceedingly good management of the property held by the Law Life Assurance Company, and to express his regret very much that the discussion had been brought forward. He had had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Robinson some years ago, and although that Gentleman was politically opposed to him, he believed his management of the property with which he had been intrusted was entitled to the highest credit.
§ MR. MAGUIRElooked upon the discussion as one possessing great interest, but still most bewildering in its contradictions. The right hon. Baronet, in reference to the conduct of the Law Life Assurance Company, had used language which would hardly have been Parliamentary if spoken on the floor of the House, but which, spoken in the lobby, did honour to the generous impulse of his feelings. On that occasion he designated the conduct of the Law Life Assurance Company as "atrocious," and he now gave it the highest possible praise. [Sir ROBEET PEEL: No. I deny having said so.] I think that my hon. Friend the Member for Galway must have been suffering from some strange defect of memory. [Sir ROBEET PEEL: Hear, hear!] It was, however, certain that his hon. Friend still laboured under the impression that the word had been used by the right hon. Baronet. [Mr. GREGORY: Hear, hear!] For his own part, he must say that if the description of the property given by his hon. Friend were correct, he I should be fully inclined to endorse the opinion attributed to the right hon. Baronet on the occasion referred to. Regarding it from the must favourable point if view, it did not present a very pleasing aspect. There was much boasting of the lavish employment given by this great and generous Company; but it turned out that the splendid wages of 3½d. per day were earned by the fortunate people on the estate. The last speaker (Mr. Murray) 767 took credit for the Company for having just ordered £100 of additional work— £100 of work spread over a property of forty miles in extent! Certainly that was a noble instance of liberality. But the real truth was, that the state of things described as existing on the property in question was not as exceptional as it was stated to be; for it had been proved not long since before a Committee upstairs, that it was the custom in a certain district in Donegal to serve notice to quit every year upon the wretched tenants, thus holding them utterly at the mercy of the landlords, who used that terrible power as a screw for raising the rents upon their helpless victims. Nor was the reason given by the tenants of the Law Life Assurance Company for not improving their dwellings limited to their case; it was common to a vast number of properties in Ireland, on which the tenants, holding by the most uncertain and precarious tenure — from year to year—were liable to have their rent raised in case they improved their farms or dwellings, or to have the fruits of their industry given to others. The discussion was of this value, that it enabled the House to obtain glimpses of many of the causes of that misery which Englishmen found it so difficult to account for and understand. For instance, the noble Lord the Member for Mayo (Lord John Browne) asserted, and no doubt truly, that the Mayo property of the Company was quite as well managed as the other absentee properties in his county. If so, what a picture of the evils of absenteeism —of the misery and wretchedness which it brought upon Ireland! Englishmen were constantly asking what were the causes of the misery and wretchedness of the Irish people. In the triumphant vindication of the Company might be traced one cause; for it was confidently asserted that this property was no worse managed than that of other absentee proprietors. He believed in his soul that absenteeism was one of the most hideous of the curses that afflicted Ireland; and, until Parliament had the courage to grapple with it, as well as with the land question, they could not get at the root of the evil, and certainly could not restore peace or prosperity to that country. He did not say that absentees should be deprived of their property—of course, no such notion could enter his mind; but he did say that absentees should have a special tax placed upon them—that they should be taxed to a 768 larger amount than other proprietors—that they should be made to pay some compensation for the injuries they inflicted, and for the loss which those from whom they derived their incomes suffered in having everything drained from the land and the people. The wealth of the country was spent in splendour and luxury in England, or on the Continent, while those from whom that wealth was raised were left to the mercy of an agent, good or bad — were left without encouragement or guidance, deprived of all protection or support. It and the land question were no doubt questions of grave difficulty; but until statesmen at both sides of the House and men of all parties resolved on dealing with such questions in a bold and energetic spirit, the country would continue to be filled with misery and discontent, and the people would fly from its shores in despair. This was a grave- and solemn question—not a trumpery question about Yeomanry cavalry —but one which concerned the very existence of the Irish people. And until Englishmen had the courage to deal with it, they would be held responsible by the civilized world for the unhappiness and misery of Ireland; for they could not free themselves from that responsibility, inasmuch as the affairs of Ireland were managed by an English Parliament. Ireland was still, and would for years continue to be, an agricultural country; and, until manufactures were spread over the south and west of that country, the prosperity or poverty of its people would altogether depend upon the chance of a good or a bad harvest; and, therefore, the necessity of giving protection to the tenant for the fruits of his industry, and thus alone could he be induced to put forth those energies which would increase the productive power of the soil, and fill the land with plenty and content. He did not desire to make any special accusation against this special proprietary; he was quite content to allow the House to form its own judgment from the conflicting statements it had heard. Enough had been said to show that great and grievous evils existed in Ireland, and that it was the duty of Parliament to grapple with them without delay, so as, if possible, to afford that poor country some gleam of sunshine — some glimpse of a brighter and better state of things — after the long years of sorrow and misery it had passed through.
§ COLONEL EDWARDSsaid, that he could not conceive why the hon. Member for 769 Dungarvan, to whose remarks he had listened with attention and interest, should have dragged him into this discussion by referring to the question of the Yeomanry.
§ MR. MAGUIREsaid, that he was under the impression that the hon. and gallant Gentleman had made some sneering remark upon something which he said.
§ COLONEL EDWARDSI never spoke a word.
§ MR. MAGUIREThen, Sir, I beg to apologize.
§ MR. SCULLYsaid, he doubted very much whether any company could hold land except for its corporate purposes. He was at a loss for a cause to which to attribute the extraordinary Parliamentary indecency of which the Chief Secretary had been guilty in coming forward to defend this company, and treating the hon. Member for Galway scarcely with courtesy.
§ MR. SPEAKERsaid, he had to remind the hon. Member that he had already ad dressed the House.
§ MR. SCULLYsaid, that he was under the impression that, according to the new rule, a Member could on Friday evening speak on every subject that was introduced.
§ MR. SPEAKERsaid, that the hon. Member for Mallow had moved no Amendment, and therefore the Question before the House was the same as that upon which the hon. Member for Cork had already spoken.