HC Deb 19 May 1864 vol 175 cc518-20

Order for Committee read.

Bill considered in Committee.

In the Committee.)

Clause 1 (Notice of Appeal to be given to the Assessment Committee).

MR. DODSON

called attention to the fact that, if this clause passed in its present shape it would make the Bill inconsistent with the principal Act passed in 1862, which provided that in case the valuation list was appealed against, the Board of Guardians should be the parties to defend it; whereas this clause proposed that the assessment committees should defend the rate appearing on that list against which an appeal should be made. The inference, therefore, would be that the assessment committee was a body having a corporate existence; whereas, in reality, it was only a portion of the Board of Guardians dealing with the funds of the Board. He proposed, therefore, to omit from the clause the words "assessment committee," in order to insert "Boards of Guardians."

MR. C. P. VILLIERS

said, he preferred the words which it was proposed to strike out.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

SIR WILLIAM JOLLIFFE

moved, at the end of the clause, to add, Provided always, That no ratepayer shall have a right of appeal under the existing law to the special sessions or quarter sessions unless his objections to the valuation list shall have been made before the meeting or meetings of the assessment committee appointed under the Act to hear such objections.

MR. C. P. VILLIERS

said, he had no objection to the principle of the addition proposed by the right hon. Baronet; but he would prepare a clause which would carry out his object in a manner more consonant with the other portions of the Bill.

SIR WILLIAM JOLLIFFE

said, he would withdraw his Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 2 agreed to.

Clause 3 (Provision for Costs of Committee on Appeals).

MR. DODSON

moved to leave out "committee," and insert "Board of Guardians." The object of his Amendment was to make what he understood to be the object of the clause more clear—namely, that the costs of respondents in appeals should be paid out of the common fund of the union.

MR. C. P. VILLIERS

agreed to the Amendment.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 4 to 7 agreed to.

MR. JOHN PEEL

moved to insert new clause after Clause 5 (Provision for new maps, plans, and books of reference).

MR. NEWDEGATE

supported the clause.

MR. C. P. VILLIERS

said, he would agree to the clause if the words "or without" the valuation were omitted.

MR. JOHN PEEL

objected to the omission of the words, because he wanted to have the maps without a new survey or valuation. Why should they go to the expense of a new survey and valuation without any necessity for incurring it?

SIR WILLIAM JOLLIFFE

hoped the right hon. Gentleman would carefully consider the clause and the expense which it would throw upon the parishes.

LORD HARRY VANE

concurred with the right hon. Baronet in thinking that the right hon. Gentleman ought not readily to assent to the clause.

MR. NEWDEGATE

said, that if the House would insist upon a map and a valuation, great expense must be incurred. But if a map were permitted, the guardians themselves would make the valuation, and no correct valuation could be made until a map was provided.

MR. C. P. VILLIERS

said, that if the hon. Gentleman (Mr. John Peel) would withdraw the clause, he would himself bring up another one on the bringing up of the Report.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. WENTWORTH BEAUMONT

, for Mr. H. Fenwick, who had given notice of new clauses (Abolishing deductions from rental in ascertaining value), (Deduction where rate of an exhaustible nature), (Provision in cases of small tenements rated instead of occupiers), (Rates may be amended in certain cases), moved the first of these clauses.

MR. C. P. VILLIERS

opposed the clause, but promised that he would consider the subjects referred to in the other Amendments before next Session.

MR. NEWDEGATE

said, he was rejoiced that the right hon. Gentleman was about to consider the gross injustice of assessing the royalty of mines as income.

MR. LIDDELL

was anxious to know whether the right hon. Gentleman approved the principle of the second clause of which notice had been given by the hon. Member for Sunderland (Mr. Fenwick)—that wherever the rateable hereditaments were of an exhaustible nature a deduction should be made from the rateable value sufficient to reproduce the capital value of the exhaustible portion at the termination of the estimated period of exhaustion.

MR. C. P. VILLIERS

said, that he had not pledged himself to that principle, but the whole subject of deduction and exemption should receive his attentive consideration, with a view to legislation next Session.

MR. WENTWORTH BEAUMONT

said, he would withdraw the clause.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. HOWES

called attention to a doubt which had lately arisen, whether magistrates individually interested as ratepayers were entitled to sit and hear appeals.

MR. C. P. VILLIERS

said, it was not very clear how existing Acts affected magistrates in the ease referred to. He had, therefore, determined to frame a clause removing all doubt on the subject.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

House resumed.

Bill reported; as amended, to be considered on Monday next.