MOTION FOR PAPERS. (Hansard, 9 May 1864)

§ MR. AUGUSTUS SMITH
said, he thought that on a former occasion the noble Lord the Secretary to the Admiralty had spoken in very unhandsome terms of Sir William Snow Harris, stating that though he might be an authority upon lightning conductors, he was no authority upon a School of Naval Architecture, and that it was unfair to ask that his opinion on such a subject should be circulated at the expense of the country. In his (Mr. A. Smith's) opinion, Sir Snow Harris was a high authority on such a subject, and as the noble Lord was ready to produce a Report from the Institute of Naval Architects, of which the right hon. Baronet (Sir John Pakington) was President, he thought the cost of laying before Parliament this and other papers, would be money well laid out. One reason given by the noble Lord for placing this School at South Kensington was that there were rooms and lecturers to be had there; but he (Mr. A. Smith) was informed that there were neither suitable rooms nor competent lecturers at South Kensington. The scheme propounded by the noble Lord ought not to be adopted until it was thoroughly examined, so that the House might see whether it was likely to prove successful, and what the cost was likely to be. Unless they had the whole plan before them, he was convinced that hereafter they would be called upon for some enormous expenditure. There existed schools in the dockyards already; it was only necessary that the education given there should be carried a little further than at present. He understood that there would be no objection to produce the Report from the Institute of Naval Architects, and therefore he would only move for Copy of a Communication made to the Admiralty by Sir W. Snow Harris on the organization of the proposed School of Naval Architecture.

§ LORD CLARENCE PAGET
said, he must protest against the assertion that he had at any time said anything derogatory of Sir Snow Harris, or that there was anything offensive to Sir Snow Harris in declining to accede to the request that the pamphlet written by that gentleman should be laid upon the table. He said that he had the highest opinion of Sir Snow Harris as a man of science, to whom the navy owed a great debt of gratitude for his system of lightning conductors, which was now in general use. But he repeated that Sir Snow Harris was no authority on the education of naval architects, and, therefore, had no claim whatever to have his opinions published at the public expense, any more than other persons had who chose to write upon a subject of public interest. At the same time, if the House should be of opinion that the circulation of these opinions were of public interest, he would, of course, produce them. On the other hand, the Institute of Naval Architects was a very important establishment, the object of which was to improve the system of naval architecture and the education of naval architects, and it would, therefore, be for the interests of this House, that their opinions should be laid upon the table. He had never said that the rooms at South Kensington were ready for the School. On the contrary, he had asked the House for a Vote of money in order to appropriate certain rooms for the purpose, and he believed that the sum voted would entirely cover the expenditure for the fitting up of those rooms. He had before expressed his opinion that it was much to be regretted that the former School of Naval Architecture had ever been given up. The present dockyard schools were not of a sufficiently high class, and could not bring out and educate naval architects in the higher scientific branches required by them at the present day; nor did there exist in the dockyards the means of giving the lectures which were required. At South Kensington, however, there were capable lecturers. [Mr. AUGUSTUS SMITH: Who?] It was not necessary to name individuals, but there were eminent lecturers, who would be able to render great public service. The Government, therefore, decided that, upon the whole, South Kensington was the best place at which to establish the School. Upon the grounds he had stated, he should feel bound to oppose the Motion.

§ SIR JOHN PAKINGTON
hoped his noble Friend the Secretary of the Admiralty would re-consider his determination, and not produce the papers on this subject until they were in a perfect state; because the papers which he had consented to produce would give a very imperfect view of the position in which this very interesting question now stood. He hoped his hon. Friend (Mr. Augustus Smith) would not press for their production at present.

§ SIR JAMES ELPHINSTONE
complained that Captain Coles and other gentlemen who competed with the Constructor of the Navy were much obstructed by official obstacles, while the Constructor of the Navy was left to himself. The Royal Sovereign was nobody's child; yet if she should prove a failure, as very probably she would, the blame would be cast upon Captain Coles. He objected to the selection of South Kensington for the School. A naval school of architecture ought to be in a first-class port, where the whole process of construction would come under the eyes of the students.

§ MR. DILLWYN
said, that the Government wanted to send everything to South Kensington, where they believed perfection reigned; but by the country at large the proposal to send the School of Naval Architecture there was looked on as simply ridiculous.

SIR JOHN TREVELYAN
said, that Sir William Snow Harris was competent to give an opinion on this subject, and that his letter ought to be laid before the House.

ADMIRAL DUNCOMBE
said, he would advise his hon. Friend to withdraw his Motion for the papers altogether, as the production of one portion of them was objected to by one side of the House, and the production of the remaining portion of them by the other side. As the Motion seemed to be considered premature at present, his hon. Friend could repeat it at a future time.

§ MR. AUGUSTUS SMITH
said, he would adopt the advice of his hon. and gallant Friend, and ask leave to withdraw his Motion.