RESOLUTION. (Hansard, 6 May 1864)

§ SIR JOHN HAY
said, that at a moment when it was understood that a large increase of pay was about to be granted to some officers in the Royal Navy, the House would probably not be indisposed to do an act of justice to the officers of the Royal Marines. He would not suggest the vote of a large sum of money to that distinguished corps, but would only ask the payment of a sum of money to which he considered the officers of that corps to be entitled. In 1854 a Royal Commission recommended that £60,000 a year should be applied to encourage retirement in the Line, and £48,000 in the Engineers and Artillery. In the same year the Admiralty obtained an Order in Council for the application of £35,000 to a similar purpose in connection with the Royal Marines, who were not included in that arrangement, they being not under the War Office, but under the Admiralty. That force then consisted of 12,000 men, but was subsequently raised to 15,000 and 18,000—the latter being its present strength. A corresponding increase had, of course, taken place in the number of officers. A difficulty had arisen as to the means of apportioning the £35,000, and to the present day the full amount had never been expended in any year. In fact, the £29,000 previously applied to the same object had not been exceeded. Thus there had been a saving of £5,000 or £6,000 each year, which should have been devoted to promoting retirement in the Marines. The Marine officers thought that, as their corps had been increased, the amount of money devoted to the encouragement of promotion should be increased in a like proportion. The number of retired general officers was only ten, and that bore no proportion to the number of retired officers of the same grade in other regiments. It had been suggested that the Admiralty should slightly increase 148 the number of retired general officers in that corps. That course of action would help to restore the even flow of promotion, which was now wanting. It had been said that the senior officers of the Marine corps were exceedingly efficient, and that to promote them to be generals would be to dispense with the services of four officers of distinguished merit. Distinguished though those officers might be, however, he had no doubt that others of equal merit would be found in the lower grades of the corps. But, whatever course the Government might deem it desirable to adopt in the matter, it would, he thought, be unwise to give the Marines reason to think that they were ill-treated while the Engineers and the Artillery enjoyed the full benefit of the recommendations of the Royal Commission, and that the country was, as it were, withholding from them a sum of only about £5,000 a year, which would encourage that flow of promotion which was so beneficial to the service. His noble Friend the Secretary for the Admiralty might possibly say that he could find no officers who would retire; but, with a little of that dexterous management which he possessed in so remarkable a degree, he might discover some persons in the Marines who would avail themselves of the advantages of £4,000 a year surplus. At all events, instead of making such an excuse to the House of Commons, he had better tell it to the very distinguished corps of which he was speaking. The hon. Baronet concluded by moving the Resolution of which he had given notice.

§ MR. W. WILLIAMS
said, it was a mistake to suppose that the number of retired general officers in the Marines was only ten. The number was actually thirty-nine. He trusted the House would not accede to the Motion of the hon. and gallant Member.

§ LORD CLARENCE PAGET
said, he could not admit that there had been any 149 misapprehension as to the terms of the Order of Council of 1854. That Order had been issued because at that time promotion in the Marines was excessively stagnant, and it became necessary that facilities should be given for the purpose of procuring a proper flow of promotion. The Government were authorised by the Order, to allow a certain number of officers to retire on certain conditions, and they had carried out the order; but his lion, and gallant Friend contended that a sum of £35,000 having been granted, it ought to have been expended irrespective of the conditions. Now, he could quite understand that it might be expedient, in the event of promotion in the corps of Marines becoming stagnant, that the Government should come forward and propose some plan by which a proper flow of promotion should be established; but it was not true that any such stagnation at present existed Last year no doubt there was stagnation; and in all seniority corps, when promotion went by seniority, they might rely upon it periods of stagnation must necessarily take place, But was that the case with the Marines? In the year 1862 no less than thirteen captains were promoted. His hon. and gallant Friend, moreover, seemed to suppose that the Government could force the officers of Marines to retire, and it was perfectly true that, under the Order in Council, officers commanding divisions of the Royal Marines were entitled and could be compelled to retire on attaining the age of sixty, unless the Admiralty were satisfied that the discipline of the division was such that they might with advantage continue in command. As things stood, however, the colonels-commandant were active men, and the Admiralty could not compel them to retire. Of the £35,000, the sum allowed per annum for retirements, £30,400 was the sum expended; but it was quite possible that another year the full sum of £35,000 might be laid out. What his hon. and gallant Friend wanted, as far as he could understand, was, that an additional number of Generals should be created in the Marines; and he, for one, should be glad, having the greatest regard for the corps, as one of the important branches of the navy, to do anything which could advance its interests. He was not, at the same time, prepared to say that the Government could recommend any new Order in Council, and he hoped the House would not agree to the Motion. The colonels-commandant, he might add, were in the 150 position that, when they came to hold their high rank, they were not liable to be called upon to serve abroad, whereas officers holding high rank in the army did not enjoy a similar privilege, but were often obliged to go on foreign service and to unhealthy stations.

§ SIR JOHN HAY
said, he would withdraw his Motion.