HC Deb 21 July 1864 vol 176 cc1806-8
MR. LAIRD

hoped to be allowed to make a personal Explanation of a circumstance which occurred on Tuesday. In the course of the debate upon the Motion of the hon. and gallant Member for Chatham (Sir Frederic Smith), he had ventured to make a few remarks. The noble Lord the Secretary to the Admiralty also spoke and made one observation which he (Mr. Laird) did not catch at the time, and of which he was not made aware until he was leaving the House. He (Mr. Laird) had stated, as was reported in The Times, referring to the Enterprise, that at the request of the noble Lord he went to the Admiralty to see the plans, and he found the armour-plating was only one foot above the water. [Lord CLARENCE PAGET said, that was a confidential communication.] The facts relating to that visit were these. Upon March 10 he put this Question to the noble Lord, which, with the answer, he would read— Mr. LAIRD said, he wished to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty what is the depth from the deep-load water-line at the fore and aft ends of Her Majesty's ships Enterprise and Research to the top of the armour-plating; and what depth of side above that is unprotected by armour-plating? Lord CLARENCE PAGET: the armour-plates of the Enterprise are only to the water-line, and that part of the ship which contains her batteries. With regard to the Research, a much larger vessel, she has armour-plates right up to the beam of the lower deck. I do not think it desirable to state the exact number of feet and inches, the hon. Gentleman asked for, but if he will come to the Admiralty I shall be very happy to show him full details of each ship."—[3 Hansard, clxxiii. 1737.] Upon that invitation he went to the Admiralty and saw the plans; but if he had believed that the information thus afforded him was to be regarded as confidential, and that he was not to use it, he should not have gone to the Admiralty. He had asked the question for public information, and not for himself. Since he had put that question he had seen in print, in a book published last year, an exact description of the vessels in question, the depth of armour-plating, and all details, and he had also seen in the public prints a full description of those vessels.

LORD CLARENCE PAGET

said, he fully acquitted his hon. Friend of any intention of making an improper use of the information he had received. He should state that the hon. Gentleman had moved for many Returns as to armour-plating, with statements of dimensions of vessels, and other information. These Returns had been conceded to the hon. Gentleman, but he was bound to say that for granting it he (Lord Clarence Paget) had been blamed by officers of the navy. The hon. Gentleman then asked what was the depth of the armour-plating above or below the water-line in certain ships? The Duke of Somerset was strongly of opinion that those were details which ought not to be published. If those details had been published, and this country had been at that time unfortunately engaged in war, it would have afforded to our enemies information as to the exact spots in which to plant their shot. The Returns were, therefore, refused; but as the hon. Member was one who was held in great respect at the Admiralty, he was told that he could see the details for his own information. It was to be regretted that the hon. Gentleman had made public that information; but after his explanation there was no doubt he had done so under a misapprehension.