HC Deb 15 July 1864 vol 176 cc1567-70

Bill considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Clauses 1 to 5 were agreed to.

Clause 6 (Market for Cattle affected with certain Diseases).

LORD NAAS

said, he objected to the clause, which authorized the local authorities to set aside a place in a market or fair in which to place diseased animals when brought for sale. The animal might be only suspected by an ignorant policeman, but the consequence to the proprietor would be that although the animal might be perfectly healthy the remainder of his stock would find no purchaser. Moreover, there was no machinery by which the object of the clause could be fairly carried out.

SIR WILLIAM MILES

said, he could not agree with the opinion which the noble Lord entertained of the working of the clause, and he hoped that the Committee would proceed with it, although the words "or fair" might perhaps be left out with advantage.

MR. T. G. BARING

said, the clause before it was adopted by the Committee was carefully considered. The penalty merely applied to those persons who knowingly sent diseased cattle to market, and he considered it a very useful provision. The operation of the clause would be confined to markets.

SIR LAWRENCE PALK

said, he did not regard the clause as so objectionable, because the presence of a diseased sheep in a flock would be much more damaging to the remainder than if the animal were removed to such a place as that contemplated by the clause. He thought its working would be found difficult in fairs, but it certainly ought to be applied to markets, where the animals were generally fat beasts and were usually purchased by the butcher.

MR. CAIRD

objected to the clause, because he perceived that the proposed remedy would oftentimes prove the means of propagating the disease which it was desired to prevent, as the animal would frequently have to be dragged from one end of the market to another, and come into contact with a large number of healthy animals.

MR. BRADY

said, he believed that the effect of the clause would be to involve the appointment of a large number of Inspectors, and thus create a great deal of corruption. Further, the decision of the Inspector could not be taken as final; they must have a Court of Appeal. It would be utterly impossible to carry such a clause out.

MR. THOMPSON

advocated the retention of the clause.

SIR GEORGE COLTHURST

said, he thought they ought not to proceed with the Bill, as they had not the Report of the Committee.

MR. COGAN

said, he hoped that the Government would consent to withdraw the measure for the Session.

MR. BLAKE

said, he concurred in the opinion that the Bill ought to be withdrawn.

MR. CORBALLY

advocated the withdrawal of the clause, which he believed would cause much disturbance in Ireland.

MR. H. A. BRUCE

could not see the force of the objections urged against the clause, because it offered no obstacle to a man's taking diseased animals into the market. It only enacted that a certain place should be set aside for diseased animals, and a person whose animals were to his knowledge diseased, would incur a penalty if he did not make use of the place so provided.

MR. MONSELL

said, he would move that the Chairman do leave the Chair, as they ought not to proceed further with the Bill without having the evidence before them.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do now leave the Chair."— (Mr. Monsell.)

The Committee divided:—Ayes 24; Noes 39: Majority 15.

MR. COGAN

said, the majority against the Motion was composed of a number of Gentleman who had come from the library and Committee-rooms, and who had consequently heard nothing of the discussion. As he felt certain that if they had heard the discussion they would have voted for the Motion, he should move that the Chairman report Progress.

LORD EDWARD HOWARD

suggested confining the operation of the Act to England, and excluding Ireland from its provisions.

MR. T. G. BARING

said, that it was useless to continue the Bill in face of the determined opposition which had been exhibited against it by the Committee. At that period of the Session he should not have attempted to carry the measure had he not understood that the Opposition of the Irish Members was confined mainly to one clause referring to Inspectors, which he himself disapproved. He should, therefore, concur in the Motion for reporting Progress.

MR. HUNT

said, he regretted the determination of the Government, because he believed that it was a fair stand up fight between the Irish and the English Members, and he should like to have seen it settled in a good old English way, and if the Government had proceeded with the Bill he believed that its opponents would have found themselves in a minority similar to the position in which they had been left by the last division.

MR. H. A. BRUCE

said, he would be quite content to pursue the plan recommended by the hon. Member for Northamptonshire if the opponents of the Bill would have been satisfied with the results of a round or two, but their opposition was so determined that it was useless to proceed with the Bill.

House resumed.

Committee report Progress; to sit again this day month.