HC Deb 13 July 1864 vol 176 cc1435-6

Order for Committee read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair."

LORD E. HILL-TREVOR moved that the Speaker leave the Chair that day three months.

Amendment proposed, To leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "this House will, upon this day three months, resolve itself into the said Committee,"—(Lord Edwin Hill-Trevor,)

—instead thereof.

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

SIR EDWARD GROGAN

desired to assure the House that he was influenced by higher considerations than the mere desire to protect foxes, and he should therefore support the Amendment, because he believed that the Bill would prevent the owners of sheep in Ireland from protecting their flocks against the large number of dogs which committed so much havoc among their stock.

MR. PAULL

said, he would support the Bill, which he regarded as supplementing a measure of his own which he had been fortunate enough to pass, and which he was satisfied had been attended with the happiest effects.

MR. DAWSON

said, he should support the Amendment on the score of humanity, as he regarded the Bill as being most objectionable.

SIR LAWRENCE PALK

believed the Bill would be found as pernicious in England as in Ireland. The only advantage that would attend the passing of such a measure would accrue to the informer, who would thus have an object in going into woods, and, even if he thought proper, might be induced to place poisoned flesh there and charge the keeper with being the culprit.

MR. H. BERKELEY

denied that he had brought in the Bill merely for the protection of the foxes, though he believed that if the fine and manly sport of foxhunting were once dropped the character of the English and Irish gentleman would deteriorate. The reason why he had brought it forward was because he had received numerous statements, from which he learnt that dogs and even pigs had been killed, owing to the practice of using poisoned food. Many shepherds' dogs and valuable pointers had fallen victims to the practice, and human life even had been endangered. He was not disposed to deny the right of any one to get rid of vermin, or even foxes if they so pleased, but such riddance should be effected by means of traps, and not of poison. He believed that the House, too, had a perfect right to prevent gentlemen from preserving game at the expense of the community.

MR. HUNT

said, he thoroughly approved the object of the Bill, but thought it was framed in a manner which needed considerable alteration. He believed that it ought to have been sent to a Select Committee. He could not resist the statement which had been made with reference to the destruction of sheep in Ireland by dogs, but he thought at the same time that poisoned meat ought only to be resorted to with certain restrictions. He believed, moreover, that the Bill was very little calculated to preserve foxes, because by the third clause of the Bill a man was at liberty to place any poison in a dwelling-house, building, rick, or stack, for the destruction of vermin. Now, as a foxhunter, he certainly did not look upon foxes as vermin, but, as a farmer, he viewed them in an entirely different light.

Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

The House divided:—Ayes 60; Noes 38: Majority 22.

Main Question put, and agreed to.

Bill considered in Committee.

House resumed.

Committee report Progress; to sit again To-morrow.