HC Deb 01 July 1864 vol 176 cc656-9

SUPPLY considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

(1.) £3,750, Ecclesiastical Commissioners.


said, the Ecclesiastical Commission ought to be able to pay all expenses out of their own funds, and the Vote was objectionable.


said, when that portion of the business of the Commissioners which arose under the Church Building Acts was transferred to their management by the 19 & 20 Vict. c. 55, Parliament decided to provide the means for paying the expenses which should be incurred under the Act, and the Commissioners had no power to pay such expenses except out of money voted by Parliament.


also objected to the Vote, and said he should support his hon. Friend if he went to a division.


said, the opposition to the Vote showed how inconvenient it was that the Church Building Acts had not been consolidated. If that had been done, the charge in question might have been removed.


said, the objection to the consolidation was that the new parish churches should be thrown upon a church rate.

Vote agreed to.

(2.) £11,224, to complete the sum for Temporary Commissions.

In reply to Colonel FRENCH,


stated, that the item for English and Irish Law Courts was to pay the expense incidental to the Commission appointed to consider the expediency of assimilating the practice and procedure of the Irish Law Courts to those of the English Law Courts.

Vote agreed to.

(3.) £22,689, to complete the sum for Patent Law Expenses.

(4.) £11,152, to complete the sum for Fishery Board, Scotland.

(5.) £2,000, Trustees of Manufactures, Scotland.

(6.) £37,948, to complete the Bum for Dues under Treaties of Reciprocity.

(7.) £2,220, to complete the sum for Inspectors of Corn Returns.

(8.) £500, Boundary Survey, Ireland.

(9.) £680, Malta and Alexandria Telegraph, &c.


in reply to Mr. Torrens, said, that the working of the Malta and Alexandria line had been twice interrupted, once in last year and again in the present year; but the cable had been repaired, and the line was now in good working order, and was realizing large receipts at the present time.

Vote agreed to.

(10.) £12,457, to complete the sum for Civil Contingencies.


said, that the item of £982 constituted a large expenditure for the repairs and inclosure of the British burial ground at Varna. With regard to the sum of £315 10s. 6d. for Mr. J. Morrin, of the Rolls Office, Dublin, for extra duties and expenses in connection with editing and publishing the first two volumes of the Calendar of Patent and Close Rolls in Ireland, there were certain people, himself among the number, who disputed the capability of Mr. Morrin for the work. A great many errors had been detected in the work in question.


said, that £552 was to be paid for fees connected with the installation of Prince Alfred as a Knight of the Garter. That was not, in his opinion, a charge which ought to fall on the public purse.


said, the condition of the cemetery at Varna was such that it had become necessary to go to some expense for an inclosure. As to the case of Mr. Morrin, he was aware that charges of inaccuracy had been brought against his work; but it was not a question on which the Treasury could form an opinion of their own. It had been arranged that the Master of the Rolls in England should appoint two competent persons to inquire into the matter.


asked for information as to when and where the outlay for the inspection of sheep, with a view to the prevention of disease, had been incurred, and whether the persons employed were duly qualified.


said, that two years ago the prevalence of small pox in sheep excited great alarm in certain districts of England, and the Government appointed two most experienced and competent gentlemen, Professor Simonds and Dr. Marsden, to inquire into the matter.


in reference to the charge for an inspection of the drainage works on the banks of the Shannon, said, he wished to ask a question on the subject. The Shannon Commissioners had spent a sum of £300,000 in deepening the Shannon. On the ground that the works executed by that Commission were to effect great improvements in the Shannon districts, the land in the vicinity had been taxed for the entire cost. The work was entirely a Government one; but its effect had been to increase the inundations, and so do positive injury to the properties of those who were made to pay for it. He wished to know what was the intention of the Government with reference to the matter, now that they were in possession of the Report of Mr. Bateman, the engineer who had recently been appointed to inspect the works.


said, that a number of gentlemen in the West of Ireland having represented to the Government that the inundations had been increased by the works executed by the Shannon Commissioners, the Treasury, though they did not concur in that view, agreed to appoint Mr. Bateman, the eminent engineer, to inspect and report upon the works. Mr. Bate-man's expenses were to be paid by the Government; but there was a distinct understanding with the gentlemen at whose request the inspection had been made, that any works which Mr. Bateman might recommend should be undertaken by the landed proprietors at their own cost. The Report of Mr. Bateman, which was an able one, bore out the view which all along had been taken by the Treasury, and showed that the works executed by the Shannon Commissioners, so far from having aggravated had mitigated the evils complained of. Mr. Bateman had recommended additional works, which would cost £250,000; but he had not heard what steps the local gentry had taken to have those works executed.


said, the agreement between the proprietors and the Treasury was that the former should pay for any improvements which Mr. Bateman might recommend, and which had not been included in the works which the Shannon Commissioners had been appointed to carry out; but it had never been intended by the proprietors that they should pay over again for what the Shannon Commissioners were bound by their contract to perform.

Vote agreed to.

House resumed.

Resolutions to be reported on Monday next; Committee to sit again on Monday next.