COMMITTEE.

HC Deb 01 July 1864 vol 176 cc660-3

Resolutions considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER moved the following Resolutions:— That it is expedient to authorize the Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury to guarantee the repayment of any money that may be borrowed under the Thames Embankment and Metropolis Improvement Acts, together with the interest thereon; and to cause advances to be made out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland of such sums as may be necessary for the repayment of such principal and interest, in aid of any other moneys applicable for that purpose under the said Act. That the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt be authorized to advance the money which, by the Thames Embankment and Metropolis Improvement Acts, the Metropolitan Board of Works is authorized to raise."—(The Chancellor of the Exchequer.) The Resolutions were strictly limited to the objects expressed—they were purely financial, and he was not about to ask the Committee to sanction any new expenditure or undertake any new works. The Legislature had by Act of Parliament provided for the outlay of certain sums upon the embankment of the Thames, and the question now was how the money was to be raised. The Metropolitan Board of Works had power to raise money, and found that they could raise it at the rate of 4½ per cent; but when they raised a greater sum a short time ago for executing the main drainage works they obtained the guarantee of the Government, and by means of it were able to borrow from the Bank of England at the rate of £3 15s. per cent. They were of opinion that they had a claim upon the Government for similar assistance in regard to the embankment of the Thames and the improvement of the metropolis in connection with it. What they said was that of late years the metropolis had been called upon to undertake very heavy burdens, although until recently it had not possessed any local resources beyond the coal and wine dues, and that it contained a great mass of Government property which made no contribution to its improvement. He might add, on his own part, that the whole charge of metropolitan improvements, though those improvements were of the most permanent character, was laid upon the temporary and fugitive occupiers of the metropolis. The consumers in the Metropolis paid in the shape of coal and wine dues, and the ratepayers sustained a very heavy charge, but those who had the greatest and most permanent interest in the improvement of the metropolis—namely, the ground landowners, did not pay a single farthing. He mentioned that, not for the purpose of proposing any change, but to illustrate the position in which the Metropolitan Board of Works found themselves placed. On receiving the application of the Board for a Government guarantee, he took means to satisfy himself of the sufficiency of their resources; but the question arose whether they should be limited to the Bank of England, or whether they might not be permitted to ask advances from the National Debt Commissioners. As a general rule the Commissioners invested in whatever was guaranteed by Parliament, and, being satisfied that the present was a case in which the guarantee of Parliament should be given, he thought it would be proper to take power to make advances to the Metropolitan Board from the funds at the command of the Commissioners. Such would be the object of the Bill which he was about to introduce, and he had only to add that plenty of time would be given for the consideration of the measure before the second reading. In addition to the security of the coal and wine dues, there would be the collateral security of the rates of the metropolis; and there was no doubt that between the Bank of England and the National Debt Commissioners the Metropolitan Board of Works would get all the money they required for this undertaking, or about £2,500,000.

LORD ROBERT MONTAGU

asked, Whether there was any provision made for the contingency of the Thames Embankment costing far more than was contemplated by the Metropolitan Board of Works. In that event, how would they raise the additional sum required?

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

apprehended that they must come to Parliament.

In reply to a question from Mr. WILMAMS,

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, that 4½ per cent was the rate of interest at which the Metropolitan Board of Works would be able to borrow without the guarantee of the Government. With that guarantee they could borrow from the Bank of England at 3¾ per cent.

LORD JOHN MANNERS

said, he could not of course give a decided opinion on the scheme without seeing the Bill; but he thought the Metropolitan Board had a fair claim to the assistance that could properly be afforded to them by the Government. It was now proposed that the Government should afford them an amount of indirect financial assistance. Since the establishment of that Board it had conducted the business intrusted to it in a manner that justified the confidence which the inhabitants of the metropolis were now prepared to repose in it, and he thought the plan proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer beneficial.

MR. T. J. MILLER

said, the great value of that measure was, that it would save the metropolis the difference between 4½ and 3¾ per cent interest on the money raised for this work. It was a matter of comparative indifference to the Metropolitan Board of Works, whether the money was raised at 4½ or 3¾ per cent; but the great object which that Board had in view was to effect the greatest amount of improvement in the metropolis at the smallest expense to the inhabitants generally. There could be no doubt as to the security for the repayment of the loan.

LORD ROBERT MONTAGU

said, he could not admit that it was a matter of indifference to the Metropolitan Board of Works whether they raised this money at 4½or 3¾ per cent, and that it would only affect the ratepayers. The hon. Member for Bath (Mr. Tite) the other day stated before the Committee on Subways that the rates of the Metropolitan Board of Works had reached their utmost legal limit, and consequently the Board could lay no heavier rates on the metropolis. It had also reached its utmost legal limit in borrowing. But by the present measure it would obtain a larger sum than it otherwise could do for carrying on certain works. The boon granted by the Bill would be a boon entirely to the Metropolitan Board of Works, and not one to the metropolis at all; and unless the House were satisfied that the money would be wisely expended, and that those persons would obtain the contracts who sent in the lowest tenders, he did not think that additional powers ought to be given to that Board.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, the House need not then concern itself with the question, whether the tenders were properly taken or the estimates sound? Their security was based first on the wine and coal dues, and, se- condly, not merely on the present rating powers of the Metropolitan Board of Works, but also on the new rating powers which the Bill about to be introduced would give to the Board.

MR. KINNAIRD

asked, whether the right hon. Gentleman would not take some step for carrying out his own most fair suggestion—that the taxation for these improvements should be shared by those who would permanently benefit by them?

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

thought the time had not come when a proposal of that kind should be made.

MR. ALDERMAN SALOMONS

maintained that, as this measure would enlarge the borrowing powers of the Metropolitan Board of Works, the Government ought to take care that the money was likely to be wisely and economically applied.

Resolutions agreed to.

(1.) Resolved, That it is expedient to authorise the Commissioners of Her Majesty's Treasury to guarantee the repayment of any money that may be borrowed under the Thames Embankment and Metropolis Improvement Acts, together with the interest thereon; and to cause advances to be made out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, of such sums as may be necessary for the repayment of such principal and interest, in aid of any other moneys applicable for that purpose under the said Act.

(2.) Resolved, That the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt be authorized to advance the money which by the Thames Embankment and Metropolis Improvement Acts the Metropolitan Board of Works is authorized to raise.

House resumed.

Resolutions to be reported on Monday next.