HC Deb 01 July 1864 vol 176 cc666-80

Order for Third Reading read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read the third time."


Sir, in moving that this Bill be read a third time upon this day three months, I do not intend to enter at any length into a discussion of the merits of the Bill, or of its object or probable results. All of these subjects have already been discussed at considerable length, and hon. Gentlemen have expressed their opinions upon them. What I desire to do is to call attention to the position of the Bill, to the course of proceeding with regard to it, and to the results growing out of these proceedings. For the purpose of my argument I am willing to suppose that every Gentleman in this House will adhere to the opinions he has previously expressed on the Bill. What I wish to point out is, that if the different parties in this House do adhere to the opinions previously expressed, the decision ought to be different from that of former divisions, and the Bill ought to be rejected.

Throughout its progress there have been three distinct opinions as to the proper mode of dealing with it. The hon. Member who introduced it (Mr. Dodson) and those who agreed with him, were desirous that the Bill should pass as introduced, and were unwilling to accept any Amendment. On the other hand there were those on this side the House who thought that the difficulties of legislating on the subject were out of all proportion to any advantages to be derived from the proposed change, or to any disadvantages intended to be removed. We therefore not only objected to the Bill as it stands, but declined to take on ourselves the responsibility of proposing Amendments; which, however, we were ready to consider if proposed by others. The third section, headed by my right hon. Friends the Home Secretary and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, while they emphatically declared that the Bill could not pass in the form in which it was introduced by the hon. Member for Sussex, said that it was without much difficulty capable of Amendments which would make it in their opinion useful, and they accordingly voted for the second reading, with an intimation that they should oppose it in future stages, if not so amended. That is the position in which the Bill stands. The second reading was carried by a small majority, and was supported by many holding the views of the right hon. Gentlemen opposite. Time went on and no Amendments appeared. We took it for granted that notice of Amendments would have been given by the other side. None appeared, however, and we asked the House to refuse to go into Committee on the ground that no notice had been given of those Amendments, which the right hon. Gentlemen opposite, supporters of the Bill, admitted to be necessary. The House, nevertheless, went into Committee. A considerable interval of time elapsed, and plenty of time was allowed for notice of Amendments. Still none appeared. The Bill has gone through Committee in its original state; and now, on its third reading, it stands in precisely the same form as that in which it was introduced. I make no complaint of that. It was very natural that the hon. Gentleman who brought in the Bill should not desire to amend it; and if he had accepted Amendments at all, it would probably have been only because he would have preferred them to losing his Bill. Neither do I complain of my right hon. Friends for not bringing forward Amendments. I know that they had applied themselves to the framing of important Amendments and had found the difficulties insurmountable, and that they thought it better to abandon the attempt. I do not complain of either side; but I do say if this Bill was supported on its second reading by a considerable number of Members only on the faith of expected Amendments, of which it was alleged to be capable, and if it has gone through 30 far without attempt at amendment, that I am then entitled to claim the votes of the right hon. Gentlemen, and all who sympathize with them, and to ask them to assist me in rejecting the Bill on the third reading. It is for the hon. Member for Sussex (Mr. Dodson) to consider whether it would not be better for him at some other time to frame and introduce a measure more likely to receive general support. For the present, at any rate, I venture to think that the course which I recommend is the best.

On the present occasion I rest my opposition on these special grounds; but, in addition, I will ask the House to remember, as a matter of fact, that the Bill does not now stand in such a form as will put Oxford in any way in the same position as Cambridge. It will put Oxford in a situation very much in advance, as my hon. Friend (Mr. Dodson) would call it, but, as I think, in a very much worse position; and hon. Members who will support the third reading will do so on the distinct understanding that they are doing what has not yet been sanctioned for either University. On these grounds I beg to move that the Bill be read a third time this day three months.

Amendment proposed, to leave out the word "now," and at the end of the Question to add the words "upon this day three months."—(Sir William Heath cote.)

Question put, "That the word 'now' stand part of the Question."

The House divided:—Ayes 150; Noes 140: Majority 10.

Acton, Sir J. D. Duff, M. E. G.
Adeane, H. J. Dunbar, Sir W.
Anstruther, Sir R. Dundas, F.
Ayrton, A. S. Dundas, rt. hon. Sir D.
Aytoun, R. S. Enfield, Viscount
Bagwell, J. Ennis, J.
Baines, E. Esmonde, J.
Baring, rt. hon. Sir F.T. Evans, T. W.
Baring, T. G. Ewart, W.
Bass, M. T. Fermoy, Lord
Baxter, W. E. Finch, C. W.
Beaumont, W. B. Finlay, A. S.
Biddulph, Colonel Fitzwilliam, hn. C.W.W.
Black, A. Foljambe, F. J. S.
Bonham-Carter, J. Forster, W. E.
Bouverie, rt. hon. E. P. Fortescue, hon. F. D.
Brand, hon. H. Fortescue, rt. hon. C.
Bright, J. Gaskell, J. M.
Bruce, rt. hon. H. A. Gibson, rt. hon. T. M.
Buchanan, W. Gilpin, C.
Buller, Sir A. W. Goldsmid, Sir F. H.
Bury, Viscount Gower, hon. F. L.
Buxton, C. Greene, J.
Caird, J. Gregson, S.
Calthorpe, hon. F. H. W. G. Grenfell, H. R.
Grosvenor, Lord R.
Cardwell, rt. hon. E. Gurdon, B.
Cavendish, Lord G. Hadfield, G.
Childers, H. C. E. Hankey, T.
Clay, J. Hartington, Marquess of
Clifford, C. C. Hayter, rt. hn. Sir W.G.
Collier, Sir R. P. Headlam, rt. hon. T. E.
Colthurst, Sir G. C. Hodgson, K.D.
Cowper, rt. hon. W. F. Howard, hon. C. W. G.
Cox, W. Hutt, rt. hon. W.
Craufurd, E. H. J. Jervoise, Sir J. C.
Crawford, R. W. King, hon. P. J. L.
Dalglish, R. Kinglake, J. A.
Davie, Colonel F. Kinnaird, hon. A. F.
Dent, J. D. Knatchbull-Hugessen, E.
Dering, Sir E. C.
Dillwyn, L. L. Layard, A, H.
Douglas, Sir C. Lawson, W.
Doulton, F. Lefevre, G. J. S.
Locke, J. Scholefield, W.
Mackinnon, W.A,(Lym) Seely, C.
Maguire, J. F. Seymour, A.
Marjoribanks, D. C. Shelley, Sir J. V.
Martin, P. W. Sheridan, H. B.
Martin, J. Smith, J. A.
Massey, W. N. Smith, M. T.
Merry, J. Stansfeld, J.
Mills, J. R. Steel, J.
Mitchell, T. A. Stuart, Colonel
Moffatt, G. Sykes, Colonel W. H.
Moncreiff, rt. hon. J. Taylor, P. A.
Monsell, rt. hon. W. Tollemache, hon. F. J.
Morris, D. Tomline, G.
Neate, C. Tracy, hon. C. R. D. H.
O'Hagan, rt. hon. T. Villiers, rt. hon. C. P.
O'Loghlen, Sir C M. Vivian, H. H.
Padmore, R. Vyner, R. A.
Paget, C. Watkin, E. W.
Paget, Lord C. Watkins, Colonel L.
Paxton, Sir J. Weguelin, T. M.
Peel, rt. hon. Sir R. Western, S.
Peel, rt. hon. F. Whalley, G. H.
Pinney, Colonel Whitbread, S.
Potter, E. White, J.
Price, R. G. White, hon. L.
Pugh, D. Williamson, Sir H.
Ramsden, Sir J. W. Winnington, Sir T. E,
Ricardo, O. Wood, rt. hon. Sir C.
Robartes, T. J. A. Woods, H.
Robertson, H.
Rothschild, Baron M. de TELLERS.
Russell, H. Dodson, J. G.
Russell, F. W. Goschen, G. J.
Adderley, rt. hon. C. B. Fane, Colonel J. W.
Astell, J. H. Farquhar, Sir M.
Baring, A. H. Farrer, J.
Bathurst, A. A. Fellowes, E.
Bective, Earl of Fitzgerald, W. R, S.
Beecroft, G. S. Fleming, T. W.
Bentinck, G. C. Floyer, J.
Beresford, rt. hon. W. Gard, R. S.
Beresford, D. W. P. George, J.
Bramley-Moore, J. Gladstone, rt. hon. W.
Bramston, T. W. Gower, G. W. G. L.
Bremridge, R. Greenall, G.
Bridges, Sir B. W. Grey de Wilton, Visct.
Bruce, Sir H. H. Griffith, C. D.
Bruen, H. Grogan, Sir E.
Burghley, Lord Hamilton, Lord C.
Cairns, Sir H. M'C. Hamilton, I. T.
Cargill, W. W. Hardy, G.
Cave, S. Hartopp, E. B.
Cecil, Lord R. Harvey, R. B.
Chapman, J. Hervey, Lord A.
Cobbold, J. C. Hassard, M.
Cole, hon. H. Hay, Sir J. C. D.
Cole, hon. J. L. Hesketh, Sir T. G.
Copeland, Mr. Aid. Heygate, Sir F. W.
Corry, rt. hon. H. L. Heygate, W. U.
Curzon, Viscount Hill, hon. R. C.
Damer, S. D. Holford, R. S.
Dickson, Colonel Holmesdale, Viscount
Du Cane, C. Hopwood, J. T.
Duncombe, hon. W. E. Hotham, Lord
Dunne, Colonel Humberston, P. S.
Du Pre, C. G. Hume, W. W. F.
Egerton, Sir P. G. Humphery, W. H,
Egerton, hon. A. F. Hunt, G. W.
Egerton, hon. W. Jelliffe, rt. hn. Sir W.G.H.
Estcourt, rt. hn. T.H.S. Jones, D.
Kekewich, S. T. Phillips, G. L.
Kendall, N. Powell, F. S.
Kerrison, Sir E. C Powys-Lybbe, P. L.
King, J. K. Ridley, Sir M. W.
Knatchbull, W. F. Rogers, J. J.
Knightley, R. Rowley, hon. R. T.
Langton, W. G. Selwyn, C. J.
Lefroy, A. Smith, A.
Leslie, C P. Smith, S. G.
Leslie, W. Smyth, Colonel
Lever, J. O. Somerset, Colonel
Longfield, R. Somes, J.
Lopes, Sir M. Stanhope, J. B.
Lygon, hon. F. Stracey, Sir H.
Mainwaring, T. Sturt, Lt.-Col. N.
Malcolm, J.W. Surtees, H. E.
Malins, R. Thynne, Lord E.
Manners, rt. hon. Lord J. Thynne, Lord H.
Miller, T. J. Tottenham, Lt.-Col. C. G.
Montgomery, Sir G. Trefusis, hon. C H. R.
Mordaunt, Sir C. Trollope, rt. hon. Sir J.
Morgan, O. Turner, C.
Mowbray, rt. hn. J. R. Vance, J.
Mundy, W. Vyse, Colonel H.
Naas, Lord Walcott, Admiral
Newport, Viscount Walker, J. R.
Nicol, W. Walpole, rt. hon. S. H.
Noel, hon. G. J. Walsh, Sir J.
Pakenham, Colonel Watlington, J. W. P.
Palk, Sir L. Wyndham, hon. P.
Palmer, Sir R. Yorke, J. R.
Papillon, P. O.
Peacocke, G. M. W. TELLERS.
Peel, rt. hon. Gen. Heathcote, Sir W.
Pennant, hon. Colonel Northcote, Sir S.

Main Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a third time."


said, the House had been taken somewhat by surprise, and had come to a division earlier than had been expected owing to the remarkable policy of Her Majesty's Government. It would be remembered that the Government were in a position of some embarrassment on account of the course taken on the second reading of this Bill. When the Bill was passing the second reading the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Home Department, who he saw had now returned to the House, and the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer supported the Bill, and the ground they gave for supporting it was, not that they agreed with the Bill as a whole, or in its most important clauses, but that they objected to the principle of indiscriminate resistance, as they were pleased to call it; and they told the House that, although they should like to see certain alterations in the Bill—such as the striking out of the clauses that allowed those who were not members of the Church of England to vote in Convocation—still they should support the Bill for the sake of other clauses of very inferior importance that it contained. On that plea they supported the Bill; and they gave the House to understand that they intended to support Amendments in Committee which would make the Bill such as they desired to see it. They gave the House to understand that they gave no support or countenance to the principle of a Bill which handed over the government of the Universities for educational purposes to Dissenting Masters of Arts. But in Committee there were proposed none of those Amendments which the Government foreshadowed. The right hon. Member for Oxford University (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was absent on that occasion [Cries of "Divide!"] Surely they would allow him to proceed to discuss the matter especially when the small majority just announced was gained by a snapped division. This Bill was not debated on going into Committee, and they could not object to the discussion of it now. They might, at all events, be well excused for deliberately considering all the events before they came to a further expression of their opinion. This was a measure such as had never passed the House of Commons before. It absolutely handed over the Government of the University to those not of the Church of England. Those on the opposite side might think that was a desirable measure, but they could not say it was a measure of that insignificance that it was to be dispatched in ten minutes. What he wanted was to draw their attention to the conduct of the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for the Home Department, who having given the House to understand on the second reading that Amendments would be moved in Committee, and who in Committee abstained from moving any such Amendments, now in the third reading, when the division was called for, the right hon. Gentleman who was the representative of the Government for the purposes of this Bill, and to whose Department the measure specially belonged, would not give an opinion on this important matter, but walked out of the House. He (Lord R. Cecil) did not think that a Bill of this character ought to pass without some explanation from the responsible Minister of the Crown. It was hardly dealing fairly with the House of Commons to hold out opinions on the second reading and then not to follow them up by his conduct. At all events, the right hon. Gentleman who had warned them against "indiscriminating resistance," had given them a good idea that evening of what discriminating resistance was. It meant promising to oppose a Bill when no great party struggle was in prospect, and not opposing it when party votes became of consequence. "Discriminating resistance" was discriminating in point of time; it was resistance when it suited. But, at all events, some gratitude was due to those, whoever they might be, who enriched their native language. "Running away" was a coarse and vulgar term. It was now called "discriminating resistance." They had had lately a good many specimens of "discriminating resistance." We should soon have to discuss a foreign policy in which "discriminating resistance" had been shown. ["Question."] Surely it was material to show how perfectly consistent the foreign policy of the Government was, whether they were dealing with the domestic or the foreign question. In each case they promised to render help when it was convenient, and when it ceased to be convenient they walked out of the House. ["Divide, divide!"] He saw that the House was not much inclined for discussion. He only rose to draw attention to the conduct of one of the chief members of Her Majesty's Government, and he trusted that before the House finally decided on this important question the right hon. Gentleman would explain the course which he had pursued.


I am quite ready to afford the noble Lord the explanation which he asks, but in doing so I must disclaim the character in which he has spoken of me as the representative of Her Majesty's Government on this occasion. In the previous discussion upon this Bill I spoke only my own individual opinions; and in speaking these opinions I did not, as the noble Lord has imputed to me, promise to oppose this Bill at any stage. I agreed with the principle of the Bill, but I said that I thought my hon. Friend (Mr. Dodson) would act wisely if instead of asking what I thought Parliament would not be likely to grant—if instead of pressing the Bill in a shape in which I felt that it could not ultimately pass—he would consent to the introduction of Amendments which would place Oxford on the same footing as Cambridge. I was prepared to go further and to give to Masters of Arts a right to vote, for Members of Parliament as members of Convocation. I thought that that would have been a more prudent course, and would have resulted in the acceptance by Parliament of a Bill which would have done justice to those who are now excluded from privileges which they have a right to enjoy, I did my best by private communications with my hon. Friend to induce him to agree to such a modification of the Bill, and I have reason to believe that if he had consented to it there were those on the opposite side actuated by a spirit very different from that of the noble Lord, who would have met my hon. Friend in a spirit of generous conciliation, and that a Bill would have passed through Parliament which would have been a great amendment of the existing law. Not objecting to the principle of the Bill I did not feel myself bound to vote against it on the third reading. I should willingly have seen the Bill in another shape, but I never promised to oppose it, I never promised to introduce Amendments, I did not wish to press those Amendments against the judgment of my hon. Friend, and I thought that I was only taking a course which became me in not recording a vote either against or in favour of the Bill, but in walking out of the House when the Question was put. The noble Lord says that this is not a fitting question to be disposed of in ten minutes. Why did not the noble Lord, who was here when the Amendment was moved by the hon. Baronet the Member for the University of Oxford, rise in his place, and state the ground upon which he was opposed to the third reading of the Bill? Now that the Amendment has been negatived, he is taking a most unusual course in order to gain the advantage of the votes of any hon. Members who may happen to come down to the House. He had a right to comment upon my conduct if he thought fit to do so. I have stated the reasons which influenced me, and I hope that the House will not think that I have acted improperly.


The right hon. Gentleman says that when he spoke the other day he expressed only his individual opinion, and did not speak as the organ of the Government. I suppose that he has to-night again spoken in his individual capacity, and consequently, up to the present moment, we have not been favoured with the opinions of Her Majesty's Government upon this Bill. But who, let me ask, is the Member of Her Majesty's Government who speaks to the House upon this subject merely in his individual capa- city? It is the Home Secretary. And in whose Department, I should like to I know, are questions affecting the Universities of this land, if not in that of the Home Secretary? If the right hon. Gentleman tells us—as I conclude he means to; tell us—that Her Majesty's Government have really no opinion as a Government upon this important Bill, I am perfectly willing to believe the statement, and I shall not go through the useless form of expressing at it a surprise which I do not feel. But I hope it will go forth to the country that upon a measure affecting one of the most famous and venerable Universities of the land Her Majesty's Government express no opinion, have no opinion, and, so far as the Department charged with the affairs of the Universities is concerned, do not even give a vote upon this important measure. With respect to what the right hon. Gentleman has said about my noble Friend not rising after my hon. Friend the Member for the University of Oxford (Sir William Heathcote), I must say that I never heard a more unjust or a more unfounded charge. My hon. Friend had stated the objections to the Bill in very clear and precise terms, and no one rose to answer him—not even a Member of Her Majesty's Government. Was my noble Friend the Member for Stamford to rise and beat the air—to fight with shadows when no one had replied to my hon. Friend? It was unnecessary for him to occupy the attention of the House merely to support what had been so well said by my hon. Friend. But, after the course which Her Majesty's Government have taken, he was quite justified in making the observations which he has done with reference to their conduct; and when this scene is described, when this debate is read to-morrow, it will not redound to the credit of the Government.


said, that the House was placed in a very remarkable position. Early in the evening the right hon. Baronet (Sir George Grey) declined to answer a question asked by his noble Friend the Member for Northamptonshire (Lord Burghley) with reference to Denmark, in the absence of the noble Lord at the head of the Government; and now no reply had been given to the speech of the hon. Baronet the Member for the University of Oxford. The right hon. Gentleman the other Member for that University was on the Treasury Bench, and he was perfectly astonished that he had given no explanation of the course which he intended to pursue. The position in which the House was placed at present was a very remarkable one. When a debate took place the Members of the Government sat still and made no reply, and hon. Gentlemen who sat behind them thought it prudent to hold their tongue. He hoped that this occasion would not be forgotten, and that the House would go to another division upon this important Bill.


rose to address the House; but the cries for a division were so continuous, and the confusion so general, that the hon. Member sat down without proceeding.


also rose to speak; but the interruption was so great that the hon. Member could not be intelligibly heard.

Main Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes 170; Noes 170.

Acton, Sir J. D. Dalglish, R.
Adeane, H. J. Davie, Colonel F.
Anstruther, Sir R. Dent, J. D.
Antrobus, E. Dering, Sir E. C.
Ayrton, A. S. Dillwyn, L. L.
Aytoun, R. S. Douglas, Sir C.
Bagwell, J. Doulton, F.
Baines, E. Duff, M. E. G.
Baring, rt. hn. Sir. F.T. Duff, R. W.
Baring, T. G. Dunbar, Sir W.
Bass, M. T. Dundas, F.
Baxter, W. E. Dundas, rt. hon. Sir D.
Beaumont, W. B. Enfield, Viscount
Bellew, R. M. Ennis, J.
Berkeley, hon. Colonel F.W. F. Esmonde, J.
Evans, T. W.
Biddulph, Colonel Ewart, W.
Black, A. Fenwick, H.
Bonham-Carter, J. Fermoy, Lord
Bouverie, rt. hon. E. P. Finch, C. W.
Brand, hon. H. Finlay, A. S.
Bright J. Fitzwilliam, hn. C.W.W.
Bruce, rt. hon. H. A. Foljambe, F. J. S.
Buchanan, W. Forster, W. E.
Buller, Sir A. W. Fortescue, hon. F. D.
Bury, Viscount Fortescue, rt. hon. C.
Buxton, C. Gaskell, J. M.
Caird, J. Gibson, rt. hon. T. M.
Calthorpe, hn. F.H.W.G. Gilpin, C.
Cardwell, rt. hon. E. Goldsmid, Sir F. H.
Cavendish, Lord G. Gower, hon. F. L.
Childers, H. C. E. Greene, J.
Cholmeley, Sir M. J. Gregson, S.
Clay, J. Grenfell, H. R.
Clifford, C. C. Grosvenor, Lord R.
Clifford, Colonel Gurdon, B.
Clive, G. Hadfield, G.
Collier, Sir R. P. Hankey, T.
Colthurst, Sir G. C. Hartington, Marquess of
Cowper, rt. hon. W. F. Hayter, rt. hon. Sir W.G.
Cox, W. Headlam, rt. hon. T. E.
Craufurd, E. H. J. Henderson, J.
Crawford, R. W. Hodgson, K. D.
Howard, hon. C.W.G. Robertson, D.
Hutt, rt. hon. W. Robertson, H.
Jervoise, Sir J. C. Rothschild, Baron M. de
King, hon. P. J. L.
Kinglake, J. A. Russell, H.
Kinnaird, hon. A. F. Russell, A.
Knatchbull-Hugessen, E. Russell, F. W.
Russell, Sir W.
Layard, A. H. Scholefield, W.
Langton, W. H. G. Seely, C.
Lawson, W. Seymour, A.
Lefevre, G, J. S. Shafto, R. D.
Lee, W. Shelley, Sir J. V.
Lewis, H. Sheridan, H. B.
Locke, J. Smith, J. A.
M'Cann, J. Smith, M. T.
Mackinnon, W. A.(Lym) Stacpoole, W.
Maguire, J. F. Stansfeld, J.
Marjoribanks, D. C. Steel, J.
Martin, P. W. Stuart, Colonel
Martin, J. Sykes, Colonel W. H.
Massoy, W. N. Taylor, P. A.
Merry, J. Tollemache, hon. F. J.
Mills, J. R. Tomline, G.
Mitchell, T. A. Tracy, hon. C.R. D. H.
Moffatt, G. Villiers, rt. hon. C. P.
Moncreiff, rt. hon. J. Vivian, H. H.
Monsell, rt. hon. W. Vyner, R. A.
Morris, D. Warner, E.
Neate, C. Watkin, E. W.
O'Hagan, rt. hon. T. Watkins, Colonel L.
O'Loghlen, Sir C. M. Weguelin, T. M.
Padmore, R. Western, S.
Paget, C. Whalley, G. H.
Paget, Lord C. Whitbread, S.
Paxton, Sir J. White, J.
Peel, rt. hon. Sir R. White, hon. L.
Peel, rt. hon. F. Williamson, Sir H.
Pinney, Colonel Winnington, Sir T. E.
Potter, E. Wood, rt. hn. Sir C.
Powell, J. J. Woods, H.
Price, R. G.
Ramsden, Sir J. W. Dodson, J. G.
Ricardo, O. Goschen, G. J.
Robartes, T. J. A.
Adderley, rt. hon. C.B. Chapman, J.
Angerstein, W. Cobbold, J. C.
Anstell, J. H. Cole, hon. H.
Baring, A. H. Cole, hon. J. L.
Bateson, Sir T. Collins, T.
Bathurst, A. A. Copeland, Mr. Ald.
Bective, Earl of Corry, rt. hon. H. L.
Beecroft, G. S. Curzon, Viscount
Bentinck, G. C. Damer, S. D.
Benyon, R. Dickson, Colonel
Beresford, rt. hon. W. Du Cane, C.
Beresford, D. W. P. Duncombe, hon. W. E.
Booth, Sir R. G. Dunne, Colonel
Bramley-Moore, J. Du Pre, C. G.
Bramston, T. W. Edwards, Colonel
Bremridge, R. Egerton, Sir P. G.
Bridges, Sir B. W. Egerton, hon. A. F.
Bruce, Sir H. H. Egerton, hon. W.
Bruen, H. Estcourt, rt. hon. T. H. S.
Burghley, Lord
Cairns, Sir H. M'C. Fane, Colonel J. W.
Cargill, W. W. Farquhar, Sir M.
Cave, S. Farrer, J.
Cecil, Lord R. Fellowes, E.
Fergusson, Sir J. Montgomery, Sir G.
Fitzgerald, W. ft, 8. Mordaunt, Sir C.
Fleming, T. W. Morgan, O.
Floyer, J. Morgan, hon. Major
Franklyn, G. W. Mowbray, rt. hn. J R.
Gard, R. S. Mundy, W.
George, J. Naas, Lord
Gladstone, rt. hon. W. Newdegate, C. N.
Gore, J. R. O. Newport, Viscount
Gore, W. R. O. Nicol, W.
Gower, G. W. G. L. Noel, hon. G. J.
Greenall, G. Pakenham, Colonel
Grey de Wilton, Viscount Palk, Sir L.
Griffith, C. D. Palmer, R. W.
Grogan, Sir E. Palmer, Sir R.
Hamilton, Lord C. Papillon, P. O.
Hamilton, I. T. Peacocke, G. M. W.
Hardy, G. Peel, rt. hon. General
Hartopp, E. B. Pennant, hon. Colonel
Harvey, R. B. Phillips, G. L.
Hervey, Lord A. Powell, F. S.
Hassard, M. Powys-Lybbe, P. L.
Hay, Sir J. C. D. Ridley, Sir M. W.
Hesketh, Sir T. G. Rogers, J. J.
Heygate, Sir F. W. Rowley, hon. R. T.
Heygate, W. U. Sclater-Booth, G.
Hill, hon. R. C. Scourfield, J. H.
Holford, R. S. Selwyn, C. J.
Holmesdale, Viscount Smith, A.(Herts)
Hood, Sir A. A. Smith, S. G.
Hopwood, J. T. Smyth, Colonel
Humberston, P. S. Smollett, P. B.
Hume, W. W. F. Somerset, Colonel
Humphery, W. H. Somes, J.
Hunt, G.W. Stanhope, J. B.
Ingestre, Viscount Stracey, Sir H.
Jolliffe, rt. hon. Sir W.G.H. Start, Lt.-Col. N.
Surtees, H. E.
Jones, D. Taylor, Colonel
Kekewich, S. T. Thynne, Lord E.
Kelly, Sir F. Thynne, Lord H.
Kendall, N. Tottenharn, Lt.-Col. C.G.
Kerrison, Sir E. C. Trefusis, hon. C. H. R.
King, J. K. Treherne, M.
Knatchbull, W. F. Trevor, Lord A. E. H.
Knight, F. W. Trollope, rt. hon. Sir J.
Knightley, R. Turner, C.
Langton, W. G. Vance, J.
Lefroy, A. Vansittart, W.
Legh, W. J. Verner, E. W.
Lennox, Lord G. G. Vyse, Colonel H.
Lennox, C. S. B. H.K. Walcott, Admiral
Leslie, C. P. Walker, J. R.
Leslie, W. Walpole, rt. hon. S. H.
Lever, J. O. Walsh, Sir J.
Longfield, R. Walter, J.
Lopes, Sir M. Watlington, J. W. P.
Lygon, hon. F. Whitmore, H.
Macdonogh, F. Wyndham, hon. P.
Mainwaring, T. Yorke, J. R.
Malcolm, J. W.
Malins, R. TELLERS.
Manners, rt. hn. Lord J. Heathcote Sir W,
Miller, T. J. Northcote, Sir S.

Whereupon, the numbers being equal, Mr. Speaker stated that after the votes that had been taken this evening, the House would not be surprised if he desired to afford them another opportunity of deciding the Question themselves; this they would be able to do on the Question, "That this Bill do pass;" on the present stage he declared himself with the Ayes.

Question put, "That this Bill do pass."

The House divided:—Ayes 171; Noes 173: Majority 2.

Acton, Sir J. D. Ewart, W.
Adeane, H. J. Fenwick, H.
Anstruther, Sir R. Fermoy, Lord
Antrobus, E. Finch, C. W.
Ayrton, A. S. Finlay, A. S.
Aytoun, R. S. Fitzwilliam, hn. C.W.W.
Bagwell, J. Foljambe, F. J. S.
Baines, E. Forster, W. E.
Baring, rt. hn. Sir F. T. Fortescue, hon. F. D.
Baring, T. G. Fortescue, rt. hon. C.
Bass, M. T. Gaskell, J. M.
Baxter, W. E. Gibson, rt. hon. T. M.
Beaumont, W. B. Gilpin, C.
Bellew, R. M. Goldsmid, Sir F. H.
Berkeley, Colonel hon. F. W. F. Gower, hon. F. L.
Greene, J.
Biddulph, Colonel Gregson, S.
Black, A. Grenfell, H. R.
Bonham-Carter, J. Grosvenor, Lord R.
Bouverie, rt. hon. E. P. Gurdon, B.
Brand, hon. H. Hadfield, G.
Bright, J. Hankey, T.
Bruce, rt. hon. H. A. Hartington, Marquess of
Buchanan, W. Hayter, rt. hn. Sir W. G.
Buller, Sir A. W. Headlam, rt. hon. T. E.
Bury, Viscount Henderson, J.
Buxton, C. Hodgson, K. D.
Caird, J. Howard, hon. C. W. G.
Calthorpe, hon. F. H. W.G Hutt, rt. hon. W.
Jervoise, Sir J. C.
Cardwell, rt. hon. E. King, hon. P. J. L.
Cavendish, Lord G. Kinglake, J. A.
Childers, H. C. E. Kinnaird, hon. A. F.
Cholmeley, Sir M. J. Knatchbull-Hugessen, E.
Clay, J.
Clifford, C. C. Layard, A. H.
Clifford, Colonel Langton, W. H. G.
Clive, G. Lawson, W.
Coke, hon. Colonel Lefevre, G. J. S.
Collier, Sir R, P. Lee, W.
Colthurst, Sir G. C. Lewis, H.
Cowper, rt. hon. W. I. Locke, J.
Cox, W. M'Cann, J.
Craufurd, E. H. J. Mackinnon, W. A.(Lym)
Crawford, R. W. Maguire, J. F.
Dalglish, R. Marjoribanks, D. C.
Davie, Colonel F. Martin, P. W.
Dent, J. D. Martin, J.
Dering, Sir E. C. Massey, W. N,
Dillwyn, L, L. Merry, J.
Douglas, Sir C. Mills, J. R.
Doulton, F. Mitchell, T. A.
Duff, M. E. G. Moffatt, G.
Duff, R. W. Moncreiff, rt. hon. J.
Dunbar, Sir W. Monsell, rt. hon. W.
Dundas, F. Morris, D.
Dundas, rt. hon. Sir D. Neate, C.
Enfield, Viscount O'Hagan, rt. hon T.
Ennis, J. O'Loghlen, Sir C. M.
Esmonde, J. Padmore, R.
Evans, T. W, Paget, C.
Paget, Lord C. Stansfeld, J.
Paxton, Sir J. Steel, J.
Peel, rt. hon. Sir R. Stuart, Colonel
Peel, rt. hon. F. Sykes, Colonel W. H.
Pinney, Colonel Taylor, P. A.
Potter, E. Tollemache, hon. F. J.
Powell, J. J. Tomline, G.
Price, R. G. Tracy, hon. C. R. D. H.
Pugh, D. Villiers, rt. hon. C. P.
Ramsden, Sir J. W, Vivian, H. H.
Ricardo, O. Vyner, R. A.
Robartes, T. J. A. Warner, E.
Robertson, D. Watkin, E. W.
Robertson, H. Watkins, Colonel L.
Rothschild, Baron M. de Weguelin, T. M.
Western, S.
Russell, H. Whalley, G. H.
Russell, A. Whitbread, S.
Russell, F. W. White, J.
Russell, Sir W. White, hon. L.
Scholefield, W. Williamson, Sir H.
Seely C. Winnington, Sir T. E.
Seymour, A. Wood, rt. hon. Sir C.
Shafto, R. D. Woods, H.
Shelley, Sir J. V.
Sheridan, H. B. TELLERS.
Smith, J. A. Dodson, J. G.
Smith, M. T. Goschen, G. J.
Stacpoole, W.
Adderley, rt. hon. C. B. Estcourt, rt. hon. T. H. S.
Angerstein, W. Fane, Colonel J. W.
Astell, J. H. Farquhar, Sir M.
Baring, A. H. Farrer, J.
Bateson, Sir T. Fellowes, E.
Bathurst, A. A. Fergusson, Sir J.
Bective, Earl of Fitzgerald, W. R. S.
Beecroft, G. S. Fleming, T. W.
Bentinck, G. C. Floyer, J.
Benyon, R. Franklyn, G. W.
Beresford, rt. hon. W. Gard, R. S.
Beresford, D. W. P. George, J.
Booth, Sir R. G. Gladstone, rt. hon. W.
Bramley-Moore, J. Gore, J. R. O.
Bramston, T. W. Gore, W. R. O.
Bremridge, R. Gowcr, G. W. G. L.
Bridges, Sir B. W. Greenall, G.
Bruee, Sir H. H. Grey de Wilton, Visct.
Bruen, H. Griffith, C. D.
Burghley, Lord Grogan, Sir E.
Cairns, Sir H. M'C. Hamilton, Lord C.
Cargill, W. W. Hamilton, I. T.
Cave, S. Hardy, G.
Cecil, Lord R. Hartopp, E. B.
Chapman, J. Harvey, R. B.
Cobbold, J. C. Hervey, Lord A.
Cole, hon. H. Hassard, M.
Cole, hon. J. L. Hay, Sir J. C. D.
Collins, T. Hesketh, Sir T. G.
Copeland, Mr. Ald. Heygate, Sir F. W.
Corry, rt. hon. H. L. Heygate, W. U.
Curzon, Viscount Hill, hon. R. C.
Damer, S. D. Holford, R. S.
Dickson, Colonel Holmesdale, Viscount
Du Cane, C. Hood, Sir A. A.
Duncombe, hon. W. E. Hopwood, J. T.
Dunne, Colonel Humberston, P. S.
Du Pre, C. G. Hume, W. W. F.
Edwards, Colonel Humphery, W. H.
Egerton, Sir P. G. Hunt, G. W.
Egerton, hon. A. F. Ingestre, Viscount
Egerton, hon. W. Jermyn, Earl
Jolliffe, rt. hon. Sir W. G. H. Phillips, G. L.
Powell, F. S.
Jones, D. Powys-Lybbe, P. L.
Kekewich, S. T. Ridley, Sir M. W.
Kelly, Sir F. Rogers, J. J.
Kendall, N. Rowley, hon. R. T.
Korrison, Sir E. C. Sclater-Booth, G.
King, J. K. Scott, Lord H.
Knatchbull, W.F. Scourfield, J. H.
Knight, F.W. Selwyn, C. J.
Knightley, R. Smith, A. (Herts)
Langton, W. G. Smith, S. G.
Lefroy, A. Smyth, Colonel
Legh, W. J. Smollett, P. B.
Lennox, Lord G. G. Somerset, Colonel
Lennox, C. S. B. H. K. Somes, J.
Leslie, C. P. Stanhope, J. B.
Leslie, W. Stracey, Sir H.
Lever, J. O. Sturt, Lt.-Col. N.
Longfield, R. Surtees, H. E.
Lopes, Sir M. Taylor, Colonel
Lygon, hon. F. Thynne, Lord E.
Macdonogh, F. Thynne, Lord H.
Mainwaring, T. Tottenham, Lt.-Col. C.G.
Malcolm, J. W. Trefusis, hon. C. H. R.
Malins, R. Treherne, M.
Manners, rt. hn. Lord J. Trevor, Lord A. E. H.
Miller, T. J. Trollope, rt. hon. Sir J.
Montgomery, Sir G. Turner, C.
Mordaunt, Sir C. Vance, J.
Morgan, O. Vansittart, W.
Morgan, hon. Major Verner, E. W.
Mowbray, rt. hon. J. R. Vyse, Colonel H.
Mundy, W. Walcott, Admiral
Naas, Lord Walker, J. R.
Newdegate, C. N. Walpole, rt. hon. S. H.
Newport, Viscount Walsh, Sir J.
Nicol, W. Walter, J.
Noel, hon. G. J. Waterhouse, S.
Pakenham, Colonel Watlington, J. W. P.
Palk, Sir L. Whitmore, H.
Palmer, R. W. Wyndham, hon. P.
Palmer, Sir R. Yorke, J. R.
Papillon, P. O.
Peacocke, G. M. W. TELLERS.
Peel, rt. hon. General Heathcote, Sir W.
Pennant, hon. Colonel Northcote, Sir S.