SIR FREDERIC SMITHsaid, he rose to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty, 1278 according to notice he had given, On what grounds the Admiralty have declined to apply to Parliament for a Grant of Money in aid of the erection of a Church and Schools at Brompton, it being understood that the Admiralty did apply for a Grant of £4,000 for the erection of the Church of St. James, Devonport? Probably his hon. Friend the Member for Halifax (Mr. Stansfeld) would be able to give him this information in the absence of the noble Lord, who was not in his place. The district in question, in the neighbourhood of Chatham, had been created almost entirely for the accommodation of the artisans and workmen of Her Majesty's Dockyard, and the population now numbered about 6,000. This population lived, for the most part, on the fruits of their daily labour, and had little to spare from their earnings, but nevertheless a sum of £2,000 had been raised partly by them for the object in question. But this sum was insufficient without being supplemented, and the consequence was that these poor men had no place of worship within a moderate distance for themselves, and no schools for their children. An application was made to the Admiralty in 1862 to assist their efforts, and thus afford them the direct advantages of a local church and schools. The applicants thought themselves entitled to make the request, because a grant of £4,000 had been made to the church at Keyham, near Devonport, and a grant had been made under very similar circumstances by the War Department, for Plumstead. In their reply, dated March, 1862, the Lords of the Admiralty pleaded inability to make any grant then, inasmuch as the Estimates for that year had already been laid before Parliament; but they added, "they will, however, take the case into consideration when the Estimates for the year 1863–4 are being framed." They even told the clergyman that he must not expect them "to propose a grant at all approaching in amount" that which had been voted for a church at Keyham under special circumstances. The following year, when the application was renewed, their Lordships on the 12th of February, 1863, expressed regret that "they cannot, this year, propose to Parliament a grant for carrying out the object in view "—in each instance leading the applicants and subscribers to the Church fund to believe that they would eventually do so. It was not till February, 1864, that, in reply to n memorial having 823 signatures, their 1279 Lordships stated, to the surprise and regret of all concerned, that they did not "feel justified in applying to Parliament for this contribution." £2,000 would not provide the church accommodation required, and that would include no provision for schools. He was not on advocate for public money being applied to provide church accommodation as a general rule; but this was a special case. The men congregated in the locality to which he referred were brought there by the Government, and the extension of Chatham Dockyard would increase their number. The noble Lord the Secretary to the Admiralty led the public on two occasions distinctly to understand that some aid would be given, and it would be very hard now, if, after three years, the Admiralty should turn round and contribute nothing. He hoped the noble Lord in next year's Estimates, or in a Supplemental Estimate this year, would include a sum for this object.
§ MR. HADFIELDsaid, that if a Dissenting Chapel would be acceptable, he was quite sure that the body to which lie belonged, without troubling the Government, would endeavour to serve the people in that locality.
§ LORD CLARENCE PAGETgave the hon. and gallant Officer great credit for watching over the interests of his friends, and he, for one, should be extremely glad if he succeeded in his object. The hon. and gallant Officer had omitted to state one thing—that the clergyman who took charge of this subscription had made rather an immoderate demand on the public. In his application of September 30, he told them he should not be satisfied if the Admiralty subscribed a less sum than £3,000. It was true they had a small sum at their disposal, and they endeavoured to appropriate it to the purpose of church accommodation and other charitable objects at the various ports where there were a great many artisans; but of late years no sum so large as that asked had been given by the Admiralty—that he was aware of—for a church and schools; and, he must say, it would have been more reasonable if the gentleman had asked fur a smaller sum. If a smaller sum had been asked, he thought the Admiralty would have been disposed to assist if they had had it in their power. It must not be supposed that the public do nothing for the artisans of Chatham in the way of church accommodation. There was a dockyard chapel, which was kept up at considerable expense, 1280 and where seats were provided for persons connected with that naval establishment. There was no reason to suppose that seats in that church had been refused to any of the artisans. [Sir FREDERIC SMITH: That church is always full.] He had only to repeat that, if a much smaller sum had been applied for, a different response might have been given by the Admiralty; and he hoped, on some future occasion, a much more moderate demand would be more favourably received.
§ Motion agreed to.