§ MR. KINNA1RDSir, a rumour has been prevalent within the last few days, and it has also appeared in the public press, that a Member of Her Majesty's Government and a Cabinet Minister has been instrumental in inducing the departure of General Garibaldi in deference to the French Government. In order to avert any misunderstanding on the subject, I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether there in any truth in that rumour?
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERSir, as far as I am concerned, I am obliged to my hon. Friend for putting this Question to me, because, undoubtedly, mysterious statements have appeared in the public journals. The subject is one in which the people of England take a very lively interest, and I do not think there is anything which they so much dislike as the appearance of mystery in anything when public matters and public men are concerned. With the permission of the House, therefore, I will shortly state my share in the proceeding which has given rise to these incorrect and even absurd rumours. Sir, on Sunday last, the Duke of Sutherland communicated to me that he and other friends of General Garibaldi were beginning to entertain considerable apprehensions in regard to the state of his health, and that a very eminent medical man, indeed one of the first names in the profession, who had visited him, Mr. Ferguson—
§ MR. SCULLYSir, I rise to order. I am kept very strictly to the Question in this House, and am not allowed to make the slightest statement of any sort that is the least irrelevant; and I say that in answering questions the right hon. Gentleman ought not to make use of irrelevant statements.
§ MR. SPEAKERA Question having been addressed to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, there is nothing at all out of order in his replying to it.
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERThe Duke stated to me that General Garibaldi's friends were beginning to entertain very serious apprehensions as to the effect of his protracted labours and his meditated excursion to the provinces on his health, and he requested me to come to Stafford House about nine o'clock in the evening for the purpose of considering whether any advice should be tendered to the General on the subject. I considered, certainly, that the Duke of Sutherland, by the course which he had pursued in regard to General Garibaldi, had not only been exercising a princely hospitality, but really had been rendering a great public service; and I felt it to be my duty—I felt that it became me—if he thought it advisable to consult me in that matter, to comply with his wish. I went to Stafford House accordingly, and I found there that considerable apprehension prevailed on the subject; that General Garibaldi had already accepted, conditionally, 1424 invitations to visit about thirty towns in the country; that the list was one which was rapidly growing from day to day; and that there was an explicit declaration of Mr. Fergusson to the effect, that it was quite impossible that the General's strength could stand the exhaustion incident to these continual public demonstrations— demonstrations which are the more fatiguing in proportion as they are ardent and affectionate. Well, the noble Duke, Lord Shaftesbury, Colonel Peard, General Eber, and one or two other friends of General Garibaldi, consulted together upon this matter, and we all came to the conclusion that it was our duty to advise General Garibaldi to contract very greatly the circle of his provincial excursions, and not to contract it only but likewise to fix it absolutely before leaving London, in order that it might not be capable of being afterwards extended and enlarged by the new applications which were coming in. That was made known to General Garibaldi in the first instance by two of his friends; and afterwards I was requested and did undertake to tell the General what my opinion was on the subject. I ventured to represent to him—what most of us on an inferior scale might give some opinion upon—that it was scarcely possible he could go through such labours without great injury to his health, and I also ventured to add that the people of England held that to be an object of great value, not only to his own country but to the world. I represented it as his duty to consider what would be the effect on his health of the engagements which he had made or appeared to have made, and what he might be called on to make in addition to those already contracted. I ventured also to say that there was some risk lest the magnificent national reception which had been given to him in the great metropolis of this country, and which really formed an historical event, should not gain, but even lose, some of its real dignity from being frequently repeated elsewhere. That was the whole substance of my communication to General Garibaldi, the upshot of it being a very strong and urgent representation to the effect, that we prayed him to consider whether he ought not to contract greatly the circle of his tour, and fix it absolutely before leaving London. General Garibaldi heard me with great patience, and then proceeded to state that, in his opinion, there was great force in what I had stated, but that there would 1425 be very great difficulty in drawing distinctions between the wish of one town and the wish of another, and that he considered the purpose of his journey was already at an end. He said he had come to England, not with the view of obtaining honours to himself, which the people in any town might be disposed to pay, but with a view to render his thanks and acknowledgments to the Government and people of England for what he considered they had done for his country. He said that it appeared to him that, in visiting London, which is the metropolis, he visited the entire nation, and consequently, as he had so visited the nation, the purpose of his visit being accomplished, he felt himself at perfect liberty to withdraw the promises he had given conditionally; and he thought the best plan would be to decline visiting the provinces at the present moment. He stated also that he hoped at a future time he should be able to come back to England and indulge the wishes of his old friends by seeing them in a less formal manner than it was now possible for him to effect that object. That was the substance of the conversation which passed. I need hardly say that I have omitted nothing whatever that is material to the point, and that only the very busy and active imaginations of people having nothing to do, going from club to club inquiring for some new thing, could have given rise to the belief that political motives had been imported into this transaction. Perhaps it is hardly material to the question, but it was within my knowledge even at the time of the conversation, both through an official and unofficial channel, that so far from there being any truth in the ridiculous story of umbrage being taken on the other side of the water at the reception of General Garibaldi, the feelings of the Emperor of the French upon that point were entirely such as my noble Friend at the head of the Government described the other night. A little truth is often the means of introducing a great deal of error, and the accidental circumstance of my having been called upon, whether with reason or without reason, to advise in the matter of General Garibaldi's health, has been made the occasion of stories which are entirely destitute of the slightest shadow of foundation.
§ SIR HARRY VERNEYMay I be allowed to say one word? ["Order!"]
§ MR. SCULLYwished to put a question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer relative to the reply he had just given to the hon. 1426 Member for Perth—whether, in the course of the conversation he had with General Garibaldi, he stated to him that the feeling of the metropolis of England represented the feeling of the people of Ireland on this subject; and did he recommend him not to go to Ireland?
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERIn the conversation referred to, I made no statement whatever with respect to the population of Ireland; and with respect to the population of England, I left it to General Garibaldi to judge of their feelings by what he saw.