HC Deb 18 May 1863 vol 170 cc1840-1
LORD JOHN MANNERS

said, he wished to put a Question to the noble Lord at the head of the Government. The noble Lord said that he would look through the despatches of Mr. Odo Russell and see whether there was anything in them which should be laid before the House for their information. He wished now to ask the noble Lord, Whether he is prepared to say whether those despatches can be produced or not?

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON

The statement made by my hon. Friend the Under Secretary of State was not founded upon a despatch, and there is no despatch that will bring out the point the noble Lord wishes to elicit. From time to time my noble Friend at the head of the Foreign Office lays before Parliament despatches which explain the course of various transactions, but in this case there is nothing at present that we are prepared to lay on the table.

LORD JOHN MANNERS

Then I understand that the statement made the other night by the Under Secretary is not founded upon any despatch at the Foreign Office from Mr. Odo Russell?

MR. LAYARD

I wish to explain. The noble Lord appears to labour under a misapprehension upon this subject. When a similar assertion was made the other evening, I refrained from saying anything, though it was my conviction that I said nothing whatever about a despatch, or anything to produce an impression upon the mind of the hon. Member for the King's County (Mr. Hennessy) that there was such a despatch. I have since referred to every report of what I had said, and I find my impression confirmed, that I never said there was a despatch, or that what I had said was founded upon a despatch.

MR. HENNESSY

I wish to ask, then, if there was no despatch, whether there was any communication or letter on the subject? When, in the course of the debate, a statement is made by one of the Ministers contradicting what has been stated in a publication which has been laid on the table by one of the diplomatists of Her Majesty's service, it is to be supposed that the Minister makes the contradiction upon authority, and certainly we all, I believe, understood that the authority the hon. Gentleman alluded to was a despatch.

MR. LAYARD

My hon. Friend, in his Question to me, said that there were three despatches, two of which had been placed on the table, and the third, which had not been produced, was referred to by me in my speech. As I have just stated, that was an entire misapprehension. What I said and repeat now is that there is a moral conviction on my mind and on Mr. Odo Russell's mind that the facts he had stated were true. I did not refer to any despatch, nor can I find that any of the reports of what I had stated will hear that construction.

LORD JOHN MANNERS

Perhaps I may be allowed to mention what the hon. Gentleman did really say. The hon. Under Secretary said— Mr. Odo Russell well knew upon what authority he had made the statement, and he would now state solemnly to the House that Mr. Russell had justified his statement, and showed that what he said was true.

SIR GEORGE BOWYER

I wish the Under Secretary would inform the House what were the grounds of the moral conviction which he stated to be on his mind. Has the hon. Gentleman received any communication on the subject?

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON

I must be allowed to answer the Question of the hon. Baronet. Her Majesty's Government entirely decline to furnish him or any one else with any materials out of which a quarrel can be got up and perpetuated between Mr. Odo Russell and either the French or Papal authorities.