HC Deb 06 May 1863 vol 170 cc1273-5

Order for Second Reading read.

MR. ALCOCK

, in moving the second reading of the Bill, said, it was one of a much less ambitious character than the Bill of which the House had just disposed. The object of that Bill was to settle the question of church rates. The object of his measure simply was to give persons an opportunity of redeeming the church rates of their particular parish, just as the existing law allowed the redemption of the land tax. At present, if persons wished to redeem the church rates of their parish, it would be necessary for them to obtain a special Act of Parliament. He proposed that application from such persons should be made to Commissioners, to whom must be given a very considerable discretion, as they were to be the arbitrators or judges in respect to the sum which ought to be paid for the redemption. He believed the Bill would effect much good; and he therefore begged to move that it be read a second time.

MR. EVANS

seconded the Motion. The Bill, if it did no great good, would do no great harm. They had heard a great deal of comprehensive measures, but he was afraid, from what passed last Wednesday and again to-day, the House was not disposed to pass a comprehensive measure, and therefore it might be well to pass a measure which was not of so comprehensive a character.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill he now read a second time."

MR. NEWDEGATE

said, he had hoped that his Bill would have been read and sent to a Select Committee, when it might have been accompanied by the present Bill. He did not believe that either this House or the House of Lords would sanction such a measure as that of his hon. Friend; and his hon. Friend would scarcely expect him to vote for it. He did not think the discretionary power given by the Bill would receive the sanction of the House; and if it did, it was not likely that the measure would receive approval in another place.

MR. DODSON

said, he was prepared to vote for the Bill, being anxious to see a settlement effected of the question with which it dealt, on any equitable terms. The course which was pursued with regard to that question by those Gentlemen who sat upon the two front benches was, he might add, not a little extraordinary. When the measure of the hon. Member for Tavistock (Sir John Trelawny) was before the House, many of them expressed their desire to bring about a compromise; yet when a compromise was proposed, they either voted against the second reading of the Bill embodying the proposal, or took the more undignified course of walking out of the House and not voting at all.

SIR GEORGE GREY

thought, that however anxious he might be for a compromise, his anxiety on the subject afforded no good reason why he should give no consideration to the provisions of any Bills which might be laid on the table with a view to securing that object. It was very desirable to give every facility for the voluntary extinction of church rates. The present Bill, in his opinion, required considerable alteration in Committee, in order to prevent its conferring powers of too arbitrary a character on the Commissioners, as well as powers too extensive on the tenant for life. He, at the same time, had no objection to vote for its second reading.

MR. DARBY GRIFFITH

said, the right hon. Gentleman seemed inclined to extend support to this measure at present, with the prospect of the Government opposing it afterwards. The hon. Member (Mr. Alcock) recommended the Bill to the House as introducing into the church rate the same principle as that on which the land tax was redeemed; but the hon. Member had not ventured to say much with respect to the special application of the Bill, which he (Mr. D. Griffith) thought would be very trifling in extent. He was afraid such legislation would prove ineffective, and he could not give it his support.

MR. BRISCOE

would give his cordial support to the Bill. There were certainly objections in the details, but they could easily be removed in Committee.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Bill be now read a second time."

The House divided:—Ayes 72; Noes 81: Majority 9.