HC Deb 26 March 1863 vol 169 cc1982-4

Order read, for resuming Adjourned Debate on Amendment proposed to Question [4th March], "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair," and which Amendment was, to leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "the Bill be committed to a Select Committee,"—(Lord Fermoy,)—instead thereof.

Question again proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

Debate resumed.


moved that the debate be adjourned.


said, it was clear that an attempt was being made to defeat the Bill by talking. He hoped the opponents of the Bill would consent to go into Committee pro formâ, and so relieve Mr. Speaker from the disagreeable necessity of hearing the same arguments repeated ad nauseam.


said, he was also in favour of going into Committee.


said, he should oppose the Bill. He wished the matter to be settled, but he should oppose any Bill on the subject which was brought forward by the hon. and learned Member for Wexford.


said, he thought it was hardly becoming or decent for a Lord of the Treasury to make such a remark. The hon. and gallant Colonel was not even an Irish Member; he represented an English constituency, which had a great interest in buying Irish fish cheap, and he should be one of the last to oppose the progress of the Bill. It was evidently the object of some hon. Gentlemen to talk the Bill out of the House, but he would insist on a division, not with a view of making any progress in Committee, but in order that the Irish people might know who were for the Bill and who were against it. Should the House go into Committee that night, he would have no objection to postpone the further consideration of the Bill till after Easter.


said, he trusted that after the protracted discussion which had already taken place the House would go into Committee, so that after the recess the Bill might be fairly considered, with the various Amendments of which notice had been given. Too much had been said about private interests. He had no desire to interfere with the just and legal rights of individual proprietors; but Salmon Fisheries Bills having been passed for England and Scotland, there was no reason why the House should not legislate for Ireland also. The duty of the House was to watch over the public interests, and to pass such Bills as might be deemed fair or necessary.


suggested, that the debate should be adjourned, in order that the Irish Government might have an opportunity of considering whether they could not take the matter up and effect a compromise, as the right hon. Baronet the Chief Secretary for Ireland was the only likely authority to achieve that object; certainly the hon. and learned Member for Wexford was not the best person to do it.


said, that if the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary were to legislate on the subject, be could only do so by proposing Amendments in Committee. An adjournment of the debate would only lead to another discussion of six hours' duration, and a further repetition of the same arguments which had been already twice put forward.


remarked, that the Government had no power to take the Bill out of the hands of the hon. and learned Member for Wexford. His right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary was ready to propose clauses in Committee, but he could do nothing more. He hoped the House would go into Committee, on the understanding that no progress should be made till after Easter.


said, he approved the principle of the Bill, but was prepared to accept a compromise. A policy of obstruction never succeeded, in the end, in that House. All who took an interest in the subject felt that some legislation was necessary. Unless some means were taken to check the enormous over-capture of salmon in the Irish rivers, a permanent destruction of the fish must ensue. He hoped that that stage of the Bill would now be allowed to be taken.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Debate be now adjourned."

The House divided:—Ayes 5; Noes 50: Majority 45.

Question, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question," put, and agreed to.


said, he wished to make another Motion.


said, that it was incompetent for the hon. and gallant Member to do so.

Main Question put, and agreed to.

Bill considered in Committee.

House resumed.

Committee report Progress; to sit again on Monday 27th April.