§ SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTEsaid, in rising to call the attention of the House to the proposals which have been made for the establishment of a route to Australia by way of Panama, he wished to refer briefly to the recommendations which have been made and the steps which have been taken for the establishment of routes by way of Suez and the Cape of Good Hope. Ten or twelve years since a Committee of that House investigated the question as to the best route to the East, and three routes were considered—that by Suez, that by the Cape of Good Hope, and that by Panama. The Peninsular and Oriental Company tendered for a service by way of Suez, to go once a month, upon the understanding that a route might be established by way of Panama also. Shortly after he had become connected with the Government of the Earl of Derby, a gentleman named Merry weather came over to this country from New South Wales in order to induce the Government to establish a route by way of Panama. He stated to Mr. Merry weather, who was anxious that the Treasury should put forward tenders on the subject, that difficulties seemed to him to lie in the way of the establishment of that route. He told him he was not sure whether all the Colonies would agree to hear their share of the expense in pursuing the route, or whether the service by way of Panama could be organized within 1013 such a time as to begin with the service by way of Suez. It appeared that these and other points could not be ascertained unless tenders were called for, and it was therefore explained to Mr. Merry weather that the Government would consent to call for them on the understanding that it was merely to ascertain the facts of the case. Tenders were accordingly called for, but they were sent in, not to the Government of the Earl of Derby, but to their successors in office, and no steps were taken with respect to them for a considerable time. Since then he believed there had been several communications on the part of the Colonies with the Home Government, and the matter he understood was about to be brought to a close. He had moved for papers in connection with it, but they had not yet been produced, and he was therefore anxious to receive from the Government some explanation on one or two points. He did not, he might add, speak as the advocate or as the opponent of the Panama route, but he was at the same time anxious to know what were, generally speaking, the grounds on which the Government had come to a decision—if they had come to a decision—against it. It was quite evident that there were several points which it was desirable should be cleared up before such a route was established. He should like, for instance, to be informed whether the Government were of opinion that there ought to be a fortnightly service to Australia, or whether a monthly service was all that was required; and whether, if there was to be a fortnightly service, the Panama route would be made available for that purpose. He wished to know whether difficulties had arisen from the circumstances of the different Colonies. There were differences of interests as between Melbourne, Sydney, and New Zealand. No doubt, Melbourne was very well served by the present service, by way of Suez; Sydney was not so well, and New Zealand still less well served than Melbourne. It was the interest of New Zealand and Sydney that the additional service should be put on by way of Panama. Were the Colonies willing to pay one half of the service if the second service was put on by way of Suez, and were the Government prepared to say that the Colonies would not bear their half if that second service were put on by way of Panama? The complaint of New Zealand seemed very well deserving of consideration—that by the present arrangement they 1014 were thrown out of the course of post and lost a month. The course of post to Melbourne was four months, to Now Zealand it was five months. They had also a very short time at Sydney to answer their letters. The importance of the trade of these Colonies was very great to England. The exports of British and Irish produce to foreign countries fell off between 1860 and 1862 from £92,000,000 to £82,000,000, while the exports to British possessions only fell off from £43,000,000 to £42,000,000, and to the Australian Colonies the exports had increased during the same period from £9,000,000 to £11,000,000. To come still nearer, the exports to New Zealand and New South Wales had increased from under £3,000,000 in 1860, to £4,750,000 in 1862. The progress of trade must, of course, be materially improved by postal facilities, and therefore it was important that those facilities should be given, as far as possible, to these Colonies. He did not wish to express any view of his own in favour of the Panama route, but it was fit that the case should be stated in the House of Commons. The Colonies were rather anxious and sensitive on the subject, and it was desirable that they should know from the Government what was the nature of the objections to the Panama route—whether they were fundamental or could be got over by arrangements among the Colonies, He hoped the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of the Treasury would be able to give them such a statement as would show that the Government had given fair consideration to the subject, and explain the grounds on which they had acted.
MR. PEELsaid, the question of establishing a second monthly communication with Australia by way of Panama had received the consideration of the Government on different occasions during the last few years, and they had recently had several communications on the subject with gentlemen representing the interests of New Zealand and New South Wales. Now, any one who recollected the difficulties which attended the first establishment of mail communication with Australia must be gratified at the certainty and regularity, on which entire dependence might be placed, with which the mail service with Australia was now conducted under the contract with the Peninsular and Oriental Company. The distance, however, was very great, and as a consequence the expense also was very considerable; and it was not surprising that the receipts 1015 of this country from the postage on letters between Marseilles and Australia by no means covered the expense to which the country was put for the maintenance of that communication. He believed that last year their share of the receipts from postage did not amount to more than £33,000, while the sum they had to pay, giving credit for the contribution of one-half of the entire cost of the service which they received from the Colonies, was between £90,000 and £100,000, so that they lost not less than £70,000. No doubt, were they to double the existing frequency of communication with Australia, such a measure would be attended with great advantage, both politically and commercially, and it was quite possible that the objection which some might entertain in respect of the additional loss resulting to the country might be obviated, were a measure which was frequently recommended, and which, in his opinion, was perfectly reasonable in itself, adopted—namely, that of increasing the postage on letters to Australia. The present postage was only 6d. per half ounce. He thought it might very reasonably be increased to 1s. the half ounce. In that case the objection to a second monthly communication with Australia on account of the expense might be removed.
The question would then arise as to the route—would the route by Panama be preferable for the second line to the route by way of Suez? The late Government, as had been stated by the hon. Baronet, particularly when he was Secretary to the Treasury, had expressed itself favourable to Panama as a secondary line of communication with Australia. They called for tenders for the service by that route, and stated to the Colonies, that if they were willing to provide one half the expense of the service, and if the cost of that service was not immoderate, they would be disposed to regard the adoption of a line by Panama with favour. The New South Wales Government voted £50,000 for the establishment of the new route, but they had not altogether fulfilled the conditions laid down by the late Government, because the application made was that England should contribute one-half of the whole cost between Panama and Australia, and not make any claim on the Colonies in respect to the expenses incurred between this country and Panama. But the condition laid down was that the Colonies should contribute one half of the entire 1016 cost, including the distance between this country and Panama; and this country dealt with them on that principle with respect to the monthly communication by way of Suez. He might add that the Government did not consider that the communications which passed between the late Government and the representatives of the Australian Colonies in any way amounted to engagements interfering with their own free and unfettered consideration of the question. Therefore they had looked at the question, whether the route by Panama was preferable to that of Suez. There was no port in Australia nearer to this country by way of Panama than by way of Suez. Even the port of Sydney was nearer in point of distance to this country by Suez than by way of Panama, and if they took Melbourne as the centre of Australia—one half of the correspondence being due to the colony of Victoria—taking Melbourne as the centre, the route by Suez was shorter than that of Panama, to no less extent than, 3,000 miles. They ought also to remember, that at present they were able to communicate with Melbourne in forty-five days from this country, whereas, they could not expect to communicate with Melbourne if they adopted the Panama route in less than fifty-five days. Then, at both ends of the Suez route they had the means of anticipating the intelligence by telegraph. It was quite possible, if they had communication with Australia once every fortnight, alternately by way of Suez and by way of Panama—the intelligence by Panama would be anticipated by means of the telegraph and the packet which should leave Australia a fortnight later. The Suez route also had the advantage of communicating with India and Ceylon.
The next consideration was as to expense. New South Wales and New Zealand had voted £80,000 a year as a contribution of one-half of the expense of a mail between Panama and Australia. When tenders were called for by the late Government, it was found that the amounts varied from £160,000 to £220,000, and he had no reason to suppose that the service could be performed for less. The Government did not consider that they would be justified in adding to the present expenditure so much as would be represented by one-half of the cost of an additional contract. He might state, that within the last few days the Peninsular 1017 and Oriental Company had made what he considered was a very moderate and reasonable offer. That company offered to double the communication between Ceylon and Australia for an additional sum of £50,000 a year. The present payment was £134,000 a year for a monthly communication between Ceylon and Australia, and for a fortnightly communication £50,000 additional was asked. That was an offer deserving of consideration by the Government, and which would justify them in addressing communications to the Australian Colonies upon the subject.
§ MR. CHILDERSsaid, he thought the case had been very fairly stated by both the hon. Gentlemen. The announcement of the offer of the Peninsular and Oriental Company just made was important, and he hoped the Government would fully consider it before coming to any determination; but be wished specially to call the attention of the Secretary of the Treasury to one point. The right hon. Gentleman implied that the Government had it under consideration to double the rate of postage upon letters between Australia and this country. He would urge upon the Government not to be hasty in adopting such a measure. There was a great difference in the character of the correspondence passing between this country and Australia and that with any foreign Country. In most cases of postal communication with foreign countries on an increase in the rate of postage an increase of revenue might be looked for, because the correspondence generally was upon matters of business that must be continued. But a very large proportion of the letters passing between Australia and this country were written by persons to whom the difference between 6d. and 1s. was a serious matter. If the rate of postage were doubled, not only would the revenue not be materially if at all increased, but it would be objected to by the Colonies as a breach of faith. When the Colonies came into the arrangement by which they agreed to contribute one-half the postal expenses, they had been called upon by the Government to fix the postage at the present rates. Three years ago the Government attempted to alter the rate of postage upon newspapers, and the result was such an outcry in the Colonies that they preferred to increase their contribution than to have the original contract disturbed. He thought it would be better to ask the Colonies to pay something more in money rather than to pursue a course which might 1018 have the effect of putting an end to the agreement between the Colonies and this country.
§ MR. BENTINCKsaid, that many discussions of late had convinced him that it was utterly hopeless to obtain a reduction of any estimate. Still he wished to make a few remarks upon the subject of the Post Office Packet Service. He considered the Estimates to be perfectly monstrous, and he could not but think it somewhat singular and unfertunate that an estimate of so large an amount and of so comprehensive a nature should have been postponed to the last moments of the Session. The total amount of the Estimate was £956,800, and its object was to facilitate the transmission of letters between this country and various parts of the world. He should confine his observations to that part of the Estimate which applied to the transmission of letters between this and foreign countries. He wished to know for the benefit of what class of persons was that enormous sum asked. [Mr. AYRTON: For the benefit of all classes.] No; it was one of the most exclusive, and therefore one of the most unjust Votes, ever proposed to the House. It was true that it was for the benefit of all classes that indulged in the luxury of writing letters to the Colonies. But the Vote was practically for the purpose of saving the pockets of the great mercantile community of the country. It was neither more nor less than a subsidy taken from the public purse to save the money of the merchants, and he would defy the hon. Member (Mr. Ayrton) to prove that the public at large had any interest directly or indirectly in the question. It was a gross injustice to the man whose position in life was such that a reduction of the additional duty on tea and sugar was a question almost between comfort and discomfort. Did such a man derive any benefit from this postal communication? With what justice, at a time of great public distress, could that House be asked to vote a million of money merely for the convenience of those who were in a state of positive affluence. He said that the whole proposal was most monstrous. It was a matter of neither necessity nor justice. It was a practical anomaly as coming from the present Government, because they were for free trade in everything. Why not, then, free trade in letters? Why should correspondence be protected when nothing else was. He entered the most strenuous protest in his power against what he conceived to be a 1019 gross act of injustice to the great bulk of the community.
§ MR. W. WILLIAMSsaid, he quite agreed with the hon. Member for Norfolk (Mr. Bentinck), that it was a most unjust thing to make the people at large sustain the postage service in the Colonies. The cost at that time exceeded by £400,000 the money received for postage, and that result was for the convenience of the merchants of this country. He hoped the Government would take the question into their serious consideration, and endeavour to reduce the Estimate.
§ MR. AYRTONsaid, the hon. Member for West Norfolk had made a statement without foundation, but it would be difficult to convince him that the country lost nothing by this service. He should say that the class most benefited was that which he represented—the agricultural. That was a class which grew rich to a greater extent than any other, without taking any measures to do so, by the extension of commerce, and this service was a part of that extension.
MR. HENLEYsaid, he doubted very much whether the step indicated by the Secretary of the Treasury, of doubling the rates of postage, would be successful. Past experience was certainly against it. Merchants, perhaps, cared but little for additional postage; but to the humbler classes it was a matter of moment, and they would not write half as many letters probably, if the rate of postage were raised. He hoped that the scheme would not be adopted without great consideration. As to the larger question of postal subsidies, it was possible that since the great development of steam communication, it was no longer necessary to pay such large subsidies as in its infancy.
§ MR. COXsaid, he wished to express a hope, that as he had postponed his question on the subject of infanticide to meet the convenience of the Government, they would give him an opportunity of bringing it forward some day next week.