HC Deb 09 July 1863 vol 172 cc503-7

Bill, as amended, considered.

Clause amended, and added.

Amendment proposed, In page 1, line 13, after the word "not," to insert the words "s except such as were legally erected before one thousand eight hundred and forty-eight."—(Sir Hervey Bruce.)

Question, "That those words be there inserted," put, and negatived.

SIR HERVEY BRUCE

proposed the omission in Clause 3 of the words "or any other waters."

Another Amendment proposed, in page 1, line 14, to leave out the words "or any other waters."—(Sir Hervey Bruce.)

SIR ROBERT PEEL

said, that the question had been fought in Committee, and the Government did not wish to reopen it, and he hoped the hon. Member would not persist in his Motion.

SIR HERVEY BRUCE

said, he should certainly divide the House—

But as two hon. Members could not be found for Tellers, there was no division. Motion negatived.

Question, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.

Another Amendment proposed, in page 1, line 16, to leave out the words "or estuaries."—(Sir Hervey Bruce.)

Question, "That those words stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.

CAPTAIN STACPOOLE moved a clause that no person shall be eligible for the office of conservator in any electoral division in which he does not reside or possess property.

Clause agreed to, and added to the Bill.

MR. BUTT moved the addition of the following words in Clause 1, line 16:—"as same shall be defined by the Commissioners under this Act." The object of the Amendment was to provide that bag nets should not be removable from any space within three miles of the mouths of estuaries or rivers, until the Commissioners should have defined those boundaries. Unless the words were agreed to, the clause would include every brook and small river in Ireland.

Another Amendment proposed, in page 1, line 16, to add, at the end of Clause 1, the words "as same shall be defined by the Commissioners under this Act."—(Mr. Butt.)

MR. LONGFIELD

opposed the Amendment, which, as far as it would have any effect, would interfere with the operation of the Bill.

SIR EDWARD GROGAN

thought the Bill would be inoperative unless such a definition were provided for.

MR. H. A. BRUCE

saw no objection to the insertion of the words.

Question pat, "That those words be there added."

The House divided:—Ayes 53; Noes 55: Majority 2.

MR. HASSARD

then moved another Amendment in the clause. If the bag nets were left to be dealt with by the proprietors, the result would be a great deal of animosity and bloodshed.

Another Amendment proposed, In page 2, line 3, after the word "destroyed," to insert the words "by the Commissioners to be appointed as hereinafter mentioned."—(Mr. Hassard.)

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

MR. O'HAGAN (Attorney General for Ireland)

assented to the Amendment.

MR. M'MAHON

said, a similar Amendment had been proposed in Committee, and the Government did not then attempt to support it. The effect of the Amendment would be to deprive magistrates of the power of enforcing their own convictions.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes 38; Noes 60: Majority 22.

MR. HERBERT

then moved a proviso to carry out a suggestion which he had made at a previous stage. The Committee had already agreed to respect the rights of stake net proprietors as settled by the Act of 1842. The same Act gave rights to the owners and proprietors of bag nets which ought to be respected, and his proviso had that object. He had proposed ten years in Committee, but he was prepared to accept five years as the term during which hag nets might be used.

Another Amendment proposed, To add, at the end of Clause 3, the following words, "Provided, That in any case in which any bag net shall be removable under the provisions of this Act, and which but for the passing of this Act might have been legally continued, and it shall appear to the Commissioners that by reason of the nature or situation of the shore the fishing cannot be carried on by stake nets, the Commissioners may, if it shall appear just to them so to do, by warrant under their hands and seal, permit such bag net to continue to be used for a limited time, as hereinafter mentioned, subject nevertheless to such regulations and restrictions as the Commissioners may prescribe."—(Mr. Herbert.)

Question proposed, "That those words he there added."

MR. R. HODGSON

thought the House had a right to complain that the opponents of this Bill were appealing to the House on the Report against every decision come to in Committee. He thought it was the duty of the Government to stand by the Bill as it came from the Committee, instead of giving an underhand support to these Motions.

SIR ROBERT PEEL

said, that the Government were prepared to stand by the Bill as it left the Committee. He trusted that his right hon. Friend would not press his proviso.

MR. BUTT

supported the Amendment. The Committee had taken away the property which many persons had in bag nets, and this Amendment was to continue it for a limited time.

MR. MONSELL

appealed to the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Herbert) whether he Would persevere in the Amendment. He voted with him in Committee; but as they had been beaten, he thought they ought to submit.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

SIR HERVEY BRUCE moved in Clause 4, line 13, to leave out from "trout" to "shall," in line 14, with the view of inserting "at the passing of this Act."

Another Amendment proposed, In page 2, line 13, to leave out from the word "trout" to the word "shall," in line 14, in order to insert the words "at the passing of this Act."—(Sir Hervey Bruce.)

MR. H. A. BRUCE

was willing to agree to the Amendment, provided the words "during the open season of 1862" were inserted, instead of "at the passing of this Act." The clause would then apply to bag nets or stake nets that were at that time legally erected.

Question, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill," put, and negatived.

Question, "That the words 'at the passing of this Act' be there inserted," put, and negatived.

Amendment proposed, to insert the words "during the open season of 1862."—(Mr. Bruce.)

Question, "That those words be there inserted," put, and agreed to.

Another Amendment proposed, In page 3, line 4, to leave out from the word "given," to the end of the Clause, in order to insert the words "and that such fixed net has been erected in pursuance of the provisions of the said Act,"—(Mr. Butt,) —instead thereof.

Question, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.

Amendments made.

Another Amendment proposed, In page 4, line 13, to leave out the word "fifty," in order to insert the word "forty,"—(Mr. Francis Russell,) —instead thereof.

Question, "That the word 'fifty' stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.

Amendments made.

Another Amendment proposed, In page 8, line 5, after the word "it," to insert the words "And it shall not be lawful for any person or persons to stretch or use any net more than two-thirds across a river, to be measured from bank on one side, or to use or stretch a second net within two hundred yards of the first net, while said first net is in the water, or to use any net for the capture of salmon or trout in the inland or fresh water portions of rivers."—(Sir Hervey Bruce.)

Question, "That those words be there inserted," put, and negatived.

Another Amendment proposed, in page 9, line 7, after the word "all," to insert the words "fishing weirs."—(Sir Hervey Bruce.)

Question, "That those words be there inserted," put, and negatived.

Amendment proposed, In line 8, to leave out from the word "or," to the end of the Clause, in order to insert the words "from six of the clock on Saturday morning until six of the clock on the following Monday evening,"—(Sir Hervey Bruce,) —instead thereof.

Question, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.

An Amendment made.

Another Amendment proposed, in page 10, line 14, after the word "duty," to insert the words "by himself or tenant."—(Sir Hervey Bruce.)

Question, "That those words be there inserted," put, and negatived.

An Amendment made.

Another Amendment proposed, At the end of Clause 13, to add the following words, "Provided that nothing in this Act contained shall be deemed or taken to authorize any interference with or interruption to any works which may have been erected for the supply of water to any town or place, in pursuance of any Act of Parliament, and such works may be maintained and continued as if this Act had not passed: Provided always, That the owners of such works shall be subject to the provisions of Section twenty-eight of this Act, for the protection of the young of Salmon."—(Mr. Maguire.)

Question, "That those words be there added," put, and negatived.

Bill to be read 3° To-morrow.