HC Deb 06 July 1863 vol 172 cc336-8

Order for Second Reading read.

MR. ADAM

expressed his approval of the Bill so far as it went. He only regretted it did not go further. If Sir Charles Napier had not stirred in the matter, they would not have had before them the Report of the Commissioners; and that Report would have been left in abeyance if it had not been for The Times newspaper. He had seen many of the evils of the present system when his late father Sir Charles Adam, was Governor of the Hospital. The great evil was the absurd and ridiculous constitution under which it was governed. The Commissioners might be excellent men of business, but they did not live at Greenwich, and only came there about once a week, and could know nothing of the wants of the pensioners. The present distin- guished Governor of the Hospital was in the same difficulty that his predecessors had been in. It was true, that in the time of Lord Auckland, when the Governor was Sir R. Keats, the latter was consulted, but that good practice had been given up. It might be said, that if the Governor was to be consulted, he would in effect have a seat at the Board, and that he maintained to be the right principle. When the Bill went into Committee he should endeavour to introduce a clause to empower the Commissioners to deal with the 10 Geo. IV., c. 25, so as to alter the constitution of the Hospital.

SIR JOHN HAY

said, he was glad to hear that the hon. Gentleman intended to propose an Amendment that would in effect carry out the recommendations of the Commissioners. It had been said that the Admiralty could of its own power remove all existing evils, but the greatest evil was that of the double or treble government, which could only be altered by Act of Parliament. The matters to be deal with by the Bill did not require the sanction of an Act of Parliament.

MR. LIDDELL

said, he also wanted to know what necessity there was for the Bill. The charter provided among other things for the sustentation of widows. He would also like to know what the Admiralty proposed to do with the 144 widows already provided for out of the funds of the Hospital and within its walls?

LORD CLARENCE PAGET

said, the object of the Bill was to make permanent provision for widows of seamen killed and drowned, and it was upon the advice of counsel that the Admiralty had thought it best to introduce a Bill for that purpose. As to the second question, he would say that the Bill did not affect the widows within the walls of the Hospital. His hon. Friend seemed to think that a fit opportunity to introduce a clause to make alterations in the government of the Hospital; but in 1861, when a Bill for that purpose was introduced, it was so unfavourably received in the other House that his noble Friend (the Duke of Somerset), as he thought wisely, declined to proceed with it. He would not undertake to say that the government of Greenwich Hospital was perfect; but, notwithstanding all that had been said about the double government, he did hope that in future the Governor and the Commissioners would be able to work amicably together. Perhaps there had been as much fault in individuals as in the system, and the hon. Gentleman himself said that in the days of Sir R. Keats it had answered well. It might hereafter be the duty of the Government to introduce alterations into the mode of governing the Hospital; but he did not think that it was advisable, in a Bill dealing simply with a provision for widows, to introduce such alterations, and therefore he hoped the Bill would pass without any attempt being made to mix up with it the question of the government of the Hospital.

Bill read 2°, and committed for Thursday.