RETURN MOVED FOR. (Hansard, 12 June 1862)

LORD HENRY LENNOX
, in moving for an Address for a Return showing the results of the late experiments made with Armstrong or other guns at Shoeburyness within the last six months, and specifying various particulars, said, he was surprised to find 531 that this simple and, at the same time, urgent Return was to be refused by the Secretary for War. A strange misapprehension had gone forth with respect to the experiments made upon the target of the Warrior, and contradictory statements had been made by high authorities as to the penetrating power of different descriptions of guns on iron plates. The accredited agents of foreign Powers had, he understood, been permitted to obtain information as to all the minutiae of these experiments, and the House of Commons alone appeared to be kept in the dark on the subject. The Return which he sought for would help to remove the uneasiness and uncertainty which now prevailed on this important matter, and he therefore begged to move for its production.

SIR GEORGE LEWIS
said, that if there was any particular experiment as to which the noble Lord wished for information, and he would give notice of a question respecting it in the usual manner, he would answer such a question; but it was not usual for the Military Department to give a detailed Return of the results of an experiment like this. The Admiralty had not felt themselves justified in laying upon the table the report of the Iron-plate Commission which had been lately presented, and it contained detailed accounts of a series of experiments, exactly like that mentioned in the Return now asked for. He trusted that the House would not think it necessary to insist on the production of such a Return.

§ MR. MONSELL
thought that the right hon. Gentleman was mistaken as to the practice of the Department, for, if his memory served him, detailed accounts were laid before the House in the case of the experiments carried on with Mr. Bashley Britten's inventions. The House ought to be thoroughly informed upon everything bearing tin the question of fortification, which would have by-and-by to be discussed, these fortifications being 532 chiefly advocated on the ground that it was possible to make a gun powerful enough to penetrate the sides of the Warrior at a distance of 1,000 or 2,000 yards. It was therefore important to know exactly the result of the experiments carried on. There was no mystery on the subject. Foreigners went down to Woolwich day after day, and saw the whole process of manufacture. He had also been shown a diagram representing the result of the experiments; and if what he had been assured was correct, the newspaper accounts of these experiments were altogether unfounded.

§ VISCOUNT PALMERSTON
said, his right hon. Friend (Sir G. Lewis) had undertaken to answer any question which might be put with regard to particular facts after due notice. But that was very different from laying before the House a detailed return such as that moved for.

§ MR. BERNAL OSBORNE
said, that the fortifications were to be constructed with reference to a particular gun not yet made. How, then, could the House enter upon a discussion as to the expediency of constructing those fortifications if it had not the specific information now asked for? The House voted the money for these experiments, and why should it be left in the dark as to the results? He had been assured that the target had not been penetrated in the course of this experiment; that the shot had stuck in the skin; and that nobody would have been hurt on board a ship so defended. With regard to the diagram which had been spoken of, he had a photograph showing the impact of the balls upon the target. There was no secret about it, and he did not see why the Government should make one.