PUBLIC ACCOUNTS.—RESOLUTION. (Hansard, 3 April 1862)

§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
moved that the Resolution of the 31 st of March be a Standing Order of the House.

§ COLONEL FRENCH
said, he should not oppose the Motion, although he thought the Committee would remove responsibility from the Government. On that ground he very strongly objected to the constitution of the Committee.

§ MR. SPEAKER
said, the question before the House was not the constitution of the Committee, but whether its appointment should be made a Standing Order.

§ MR. HENNESSY
said, he wished to ask whether it was intended that the Committee should deal with English accounts only, or that its operation should be extended to the United Kingdom? If to the latter, he objected to the constitution of the Committee as it was to be proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He thought that there ought to be upon it some representative of Ireland.

COLONEL DUNNE
said, he had to complain that the statement of the revenue from Ireland was perfectly delusive. The taxes raised in that country were only returned as £7,000,000; whereas in reality 529 they amounted to nearly £11,000,000. The right, hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, with that contempt which he usually bestowed on Irish subjects, had not only excluded Irish Members from the Committee, but refused to put a single military man upon it, though it was known that, in Ireland especially, military accounts were sadly neglected.

§ LORD ROBERT MONTAGU
observed, that if Irish accounts were mismanaged, the fault was to some extent that of the Irish Members, who paid little attention to them.

§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, that he would then propose that the Committee on Public Accounts in the present Session should consist of Sir Francis Baring, Mr. E. P. Bouverie, Sir Stafford Northcote, Mr. Peel, Mr. Glyn, Mr. Cobden, Sir Henry Willoughby, Mr. Howes, and Mr. Walpole. He wished to state at the same time that it had never entered into the heads of those by whom those hon. Members were selected that there could be the slightest reason for inquiring to what part of the United Kingdom any one of the Members belonged. Of the two vacancies which had arisen in the Committee, one had been filled by the nomination of Mr. Walpole and the other by that of Mr. Bouverie. Especial care was necessary in choosing a successor to Sir James Graham, who hardly ever had a rival, and never a superior, in his acquaintance with the forms and business of the House, in his intuitive perception of all administrative questions, his immense knowledge of public affairs, the comprehensive and accurate judgment which he applied in dealing with matters like this, or in his unbounded readiness to give the benefit of his acquirements, his talents, and experience both to this House and to all who were anxious to profit by them. The hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. E. P. Bouverie) was chosen to fill the place of Sir James Graham, not because he was a Scotch Member, but on account of his competence and ability. Personal fitness ought to be the only guide in the choice of the Members of the Committee, and it was on that ground that he ventured to submit the names which he had put on the notice paper.

§ COLONEL FRENCH
said, that notwithstanding what had fallen from the right hon. Gentleman, he must assert the necessity of having two Irish and two Scotch. Members upon the Committee. He must also deny the assumption of the right hon. Gentleman that because a man had served for one Session he was therefore, as a matter of course, to serve on the Committee again.

§ MR. HENNESSY
said, that it was plain from the evidence taken before the Committee last year that the English Members did not understand Irish Accounts.

§ MR. O'BRIEN
said, it would be considered a slight to Ireland if no Irishman was on the Committee. He thought the Government ought to defer to the wishes expressed by so large a section of the House.

§ MR. NEWDEGATE
said, there was not one of the Gentlemen that had been proposed to whom he could object, but he protested against the idea that the House was bound by any arrangement made out of it. He should vote for all the names, but he would support a Motion for the addition of another Member.

COLONEL DUNNE
said, he found great difficulty in voting against any of the names proposed by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but he thought that the right hon. Gentleman had not dealt fairly with Ireland.

§ MR. WHITESIDE
said, he thought that it would be well to add a Scotch and an Irish Member to the Committee.

MAJOR HAMILTON
observed, that he should not be doing his duty if he did not join the Irish brigade in their request on this occasion.

§ LORD ROBERT MONTAGU
said, he wished to ask if it was competent for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to add another name after the House had agreed that the appointment of the Committee should be a Standing Order, and that the Committee should consist of nine Members.

§ MR. SPEAKER
said it was not.

§ COLONEL FRENCH
said, that he should object to the appointment of that right hon. Gentleman.

§ SIR STAFFORD NORTHCOTE
remarked, that the proceedings of the Committee would be very much crippled if the Secretary of the Treasury were not a member of it.

§ MR. O'BRIEN
said, he should vote against the name of the Secretary of the Treasury, because his name was not on the list which had been agreed on by the Irish Members.

§ MR. HENNESSY
said, he would then move that the debate be adjourned, in order to give the Chancellor of the Exchequer the opportunity of considering whether he would not consent to the enlargement of the Committee.

§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
said, the House had decided, both in this and the previous Session, to retain the number of the Committee as it at present stood, and he must therefore decline to entertain any suggestion for its enlargement.

§ MR. HENNESSY
said, that out of respect for the leader of the House, and not wishing to keep him there longer at so late an hour, the opposition would no longer be persisted in.