§ MR. HENNESSYsaid, that before the noble Lord replied he would beg to repeat a question which he had put the last week, but to which he had received no answer, Whether he has received any Despatches from Mr. Elliot about the so called reactionary movement in Naples, and whether he will produce any Papers or give any account which will explain the telegrams which have appeared morning after morning to the effect that tranquillity was now restored?
§ LORD JOHN RUSSELLIt is a somewhat anxious task to have to give any opinion with regard to various countries of Europe and the merits of different parties upon imperfect information, and without going into the history of troubles which generally date from long years back. The hon Member for Bridport (Mr. Cochrane) began by saying that I had made an appeal to nationalities, and that that appeal, which was contained in a despatch of mine of October last had produced the occurrences at Warsaw, and those which are now taking place in Hungary. The hon. Member is mistaken in supposing that I made any appeal to nationalities. I stated what were then the views of the Government with regard to Italy, and especially with regard to Naples and Sicily; and I was induced to do so because Russia and Prussia had already pronounced their opinions, and because there must sooner or later arise a question, which has arisen, whether the Government which superseded that of the late King of Naples was such a Government that we could acknowledge 1539 it as a regular Government in Europe. It was on that account necessary to give some opinion with reference to what was taking place in Italy. I gave that opinion. I stated that, since the year 1821, the people in both the Roman and Neapolitan States had suffered misgovernment, which I believed was worse than that which existed in any other country in Europe—a good deal worse than that existing in Turkey—and that after suffering so long I could not wonder that they had joined the invaders who had overthrown the authorities who had misgoverned them. I think I should be attributing more to that despatch than it really deserves if I were to suppose that either Poland or Hungary had become discontented and disturbed in consequence of its contents.
With regard to Poland every one in this country must feel great sympathy with a nation so distinguished in arms, with such a brilliant past history, and which has preserved its feelinga of nationality to this day. We cannot help feeling that she deserves a better fate, or regretting the partition of which she was made the victim eighty or ninety years ago. But I should be reluctant to say anything which could induce the Poles to suppose that their nationality would be restored by any efforts of this country in their favour. If I were to write a despatch on that subject to the Court of St. Petersburg, I entertain no doubt whatever as to the answer I should receive from that Court. I should be told that the Emperor of Russia had made most liberal concessions to his Polish subjects, and that all he required was that tranquillity should prevail in that country. On the one hand, he would not withdraw those concessions; and on the other, he would not go beyond the line which he considered necessary to the maintenance of his authority over that country. There would be the despatch and there would be the answer. But is any party in this country prepared—could any Government be formed to take up arms and to endeavour by force to restore the nationality of Poland? If not, although she may possess our sympathies, it is not a case in which diplomatic exertions can be effectual. What has happened lately is, no doubt, very lamentable; and I cannot, for my own part, understand why it was that the people of Warsaw had not the notice given to them to which they were entitled—that force would be used to disperse the crowds in the streets. It was quite competent for the Governor of War- 1540 saw, if those crowds were such as to disturb the public peace, to give public notice that those crowds would not be permitted, and would, if they assembled, be dispersed by force; and although notice, three times repeated, was actually given to the persons assembled before they were driven away, it seems to me that a wise, humane, and just Governor would have given notice at least a day or two previously that force would be used to scatter any assemblage of character likely to disturb the public peace. I do not feel justified in given the Reports for which I have been asked. It is obvious that by their production one party or the other would be very much offended, and the position of the person making them injured to a corresponding extent. Reports in themselves may be perfectly fair, but it would not be fair to endanger men in responsible positions by publishing everything which they may report.
An hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hennessy) asked me a question with regard to what has taken place at Naples. The accounts which we have received are of this general complexion—tranquillity prevails at Naples, but the provinces are very much disturbed by the disbanded soldiers belonging to the army of the late King of Naples. On almost every occasion, at the end of a contest, when a large army is disbanded, men who have no profession but that of arms take to marauding practices, especially when they can easily find a safe refuge in the mountains. One may read in the last volume of Lord Macaulay's History, how after the Peace of Ryswick, when our troops were disbanded, the country was in a very disturbed state, and the road to Newmarket, and even the streets, were not safe. And Naples itself is peculiarly circumstanced, for, while the late King has been driven out of Gaeta and every stronghold in his former Kingdom of Naples, he has been allowed to remain at Rome, and from that city messages, arms, and money are despatched, and conspiracies are set on foot. These conspiracies have been discovered, and it is said that the object of one of them was to assassinate many of the leading Liberals in Naples. Several persons have been arrested, and are to be brought for trial for that offence. It is extremely natural that the ex-King of Naples should find a refuge at Rome, but it is greatly to be regretted that there should exist in that capital a focus of conspiracy against the existing authorities 1541 which tends to propagate disorder, and which leads to the very worst results.
§ MR. HENNESSYWill the noble Lord lay on the table the papers and despatches from Mr. Elliot?
§ LORD JOHN RUSSELLMr. Elliot left Naples about six months ago, and has been some time in this country; therefore there can be no despatches from him on the subject There is an attaché of the mission to Turin, and likewise a Consul at Naples, from whom we receive accounts from time to time; but there are no despatches that I can produce. If I understood the hon. Gentleman, he wished to ask for Mr. Elliot's despatches, and the commercial papers. These were laid on the table this evening.
§ MR. HENNESSYI did not ask for the commercial reports, but for any report which might have been received with regard to the reactionary movements in Naples.
LORD JOHN RUSSLLLExactly. There are no despatches relating to reactionary movements in Naples, except that persons were conspiring and arrested. There have been trifling riots from time to time, but they were of very small account, and there have been no reactionary movements of any consequence.
My hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham (Sir Harry Verney) asked me a question with respect to Schleswig-Holstein. I shall decline to go into that very complicated subject, but I can assure my hon. Friend that Her Majesty's Government are engaged with several of the European Powers in the endeavour to make propositions which will be effectual in arranging the difficulty between Denmark and the German States. I own it appears to me that the differences which have arisen are owing far more to the passions excited by the very large pretensions put forward at both sides than to any real difficulty regarding the merits of the question. It is quite true, as my hon. Friend behind me (Sir Morton Peto) has said, that the people of Holstein and Schleswig do not wish to change their Sovereign; but questions of much gravity have arisen with regard to constitutional usage and to the political connections of those States. I trust that by the communications in which we are now engaged with the different European Powers we may be enabled to propose terms which will put an end to the dispute; for nothing could be more dangerous than a contest arising between Germany and 1542 Denmark. Nobody could say how far it might spread. Standing, therefore, as we do in an attitude totally impartial, we trust that the representations of Her Majesty's Government may be attended with good effect. The report of Mr. Ward, to which allusion has been made, was written five years ago; and as things have very much changed since then it would be calculated rather to mislead the House were we now to present it. In a few days, however, I hope to lay on the table papers which will explain the present position of the Holstein question, and what is now passing with regard to it.