HC Deb 08 March 1861 vol 161 cc1642-7
COLONEL SYKES

said, he would beg to ask the Secretary of State for India, What arrangement is being made for the medical charge of Her Majesty's Native Troops in India, regular and irregular, to ensure the language of the patients in hospital being understood by the European Medical Officer prescribing for them; and what number of European Officers were for the future to be attached to each of Her Majesty's Native Regiments in India, regular and ir- regular? Under any arrangement there would still be a large number of Native troops in India, and he regarded it as of the utmost importance that the hospitals provided for their accommodation should be placed in charge of competent and experienced medical men. Every Sepoy officer knew that the most ludicrous and even dangerous prescriptions had been given to native soldiers in hospital from utter ignorance of the native languages by the European doctor. But not only did native patients suffer from the inexperience of surgeons recently from Europe, but so did the European soldiers. Everybody knew that all tropical climates had peculiar diseases, which required a peculiar treatment, and which could only be learned from a lengthened residence in the country. To place European troops, therefore, in the hands of medical men who had not local experience, was not less impolitic than wanting in humanity. He trusted, therefore, there would be maintained a local Medical Service for India, where there must always be an army of 200,000 men, European and Native; but he entertained grave doubts whether this would be done, for a plan, it was said, was about to be adopted, which he could only characterize as a lust for centralization for the sake of power and patronage. The second part of his question was also of great importance. It was proposed, he believed, that in future there should never be more than six European officers in a Native regiment. Now all officers who had served with Native troops on field service, in a line of battle or the storm of a breach, knew that their efficiency and amenability to control was in the ratio of the number of European officers with them. The reduction, therefore, of the number of European officers with a Native regiment to six would, in his opinion, be attended with lamentable results.

MR. CRAWFORD

said, before the right hon. Gentleman answered the question he wished to put to him one of a kindred nature. The House was aware that there was a considerable number of Natives of India residing in this country for the purpose of going through a medical education, with the hope of getting introduced into the medical service in India by the process of open competition. Great consternation had been produced among those persons by a statement made by the right hon. Secretary for India some days ago. They were apprehensive that, whatever their attainments might be, they would in future be debarred from entering the medical service in India. He hoped that the impression which prevailed among them was without foundation, and that the right hon. Secretary of State would inform the House that in future all the services in India would be open to all the Natives of India without distinction of cast or creed.

SIR MINTO FARQUHAR

said, he would also beg to ask the right hon. Baronet, the Secretary of State for India, whether, in future, upon the appointment of Officers of the Local or Line Regiments in India to the new Staff Corps, or any Civil employment, they will be struck off the strength of their Regiments, and whether the vacancies so caused will be filled by the Officers next in succession in their respective Regiments; and whether there is to be any distinction between the Services in this respect? It appeared from a letter which he had received from India, that the general impression there was, that when an officer was appointed to the new staff, promotion would go in the regiment. He was afraid, therefore, that a statement recently made in "another place"—pointing, as it did, to a different conclusion—would cause much dissatisfaction in India. Hitherto the great complaint had been that officers wore constantly detached on civil and staff appointments, and that their regiments had suffered in consequence. It was evident from what had been said in "another place," that the same practice was to be continued. The result must inevitably be great inconvenience in regiments, and a serious injury to the whole service. He wished to know, whether the two armies were to be placed upon the same footing in this respect?

MR. VANSITTART

said, he also wished to ask the right hon. Baronet, the Secretary of State for India, whether it is his intention to introduce any Bills relating to India during the present Session; and, if so, whether he has any objection to state the nature and objects of such Bills? He hoped the House would permit him to offer a few very brief remarks. It would be in the recollection of the right hon. Baronet that, on the 9th of February, 1860, he did himself the honour to submit a string of Resolutions relative to India, which embraced the opening up of the Legislative Council by increasing its numbers and powers; the abolition of the Supreme Councils at the different Presi- dency towns; and the amalgamation of the Supreme and Sudder Courts. These last two measures had been strongly recommended by successive Committees, and by the noble Lord, the Member for King's Lynn (Lord Stanley). His Motion led to a debate, which was brought to a close by the right hon. Baronet replying— The three subjects which were referred to by the hon. Member—the Civil Service, the Supreme and Sudder Courts, and the question of the Legislative Council—are now under consideration by three different Committees of the Indian Council; and I hope before long to lay before the House such measures as may become necessary for carrying out the decisions which may ultimately be adopted. Under these circumstances I do not see what advantage would be gained by referring them for investigation to a Committee."—[3 Hansard, clvi.,751.] A twelvemonth, however, having elapsed since the right hon. Baronet gave that reply, and as it would be convenient to those who took an interest in Indian affairs to be made acquainted with the nature of the Bills to be introduced, be begged to draw his attention to the subject.

SIR CHARLES WOOD

In reply to the first Question put to mo by my hon. and gallant Friend behind (Colonel Sykes) as to the organization of the medical service in India, all I have to say is that the whole question is under the consideration of the Indian Council, and I am not prepared to say what resolution they are likely to arrive at; but this I may state, that every pains will be taken to obviate the evils which have been so strongly felt in India of putting medical officers in charge of the hospitals who may be unable to converse with the Natives under their charge.

In answer to my hon. Friend the Member for the City of London (Mr. Crawford) I may say that the statement to which he has referred was made, not by me, but by my hon. Friend the Under Secretary for War, and related to the competition for surgeons in the general army of the Queen. What was said was that there were many cases in which Natives of India and Africa, subjects of the Queen, could not be held to be fitted for general service as surgeons in the general army. I do not consider that Natives of India and Africa whether capable of performing the duties or not, have a right to enter by competition generally into the army of the Queen.

With regard to the hon. and gallant Officer's second question, he is aware that the number of European officers which hitherto has been usually attached to an irregular regiment is three or four. The Government of India recommended that there should be six; and that recommendation, substantially, will be carried out. With regard to regular regiments no change has at present taken place. My own belief is that regiments would be more efficient, on the irregular system, with six officers, and certainly it would lead to the economy of the service.

With regard to the question of the hon. Baronet opposite (Sir Minto Farquhar), I have to state that it is not intended to place both services on identically the same footing. It is necessary to insure to every Indian officer precisely the promotion he has a right to expect. That arrangement must be strictly maintained. When an officer is taken from a local regiment and put into the Staff corps the result to the officers of his regiment will be precisely the same as if he had been placed under present regulations on Staff employment, and the effect of the arrangement will be this, that every Indian officer not transferred to the staff corps will attain his promotion precisely as soon—neither sooner nor later than he would have done if no change whatever had been made in the Indian service. With regard to officers going from the Line to the Staff corps, the Commander-in-Chief has submitted to Her Majesty, and Her Majesty has approved an arrangement which will be eminently for the benefit of the Indian army. If a captain in the Line, for instance, goes into the staff corps his position must be filled up or the regiment would not be efficient; and the arrangement is that whenever a vacancy occurs in a Line regiment by an officer going into the Indian Staff corps an officer of the Indian army will be placed in the Line regiment, such Indian officer being a person of good character, recommended by the Governor General and approved by the Commander-in-Chief. That will clearly be to the advantage of the Indian army, and must tend to obliterate all distinctions between them and the Line.

In regard to the question of the hon. Member for Windsor (Mr. Vansittart), he has stated quite correctly what I said last year, that it had been my intention to introduce a Bill for the amalgamation of the Supreme and Sudder Courts. In fact, I had a Bill in draft for the purpose; but he will remember that about the month of May there was great indisposition exhibited by the House to deal with these Indian subjects, and I was unwillingly obliged to postpone the introduction of the Bill to carry out the intention of the Government in 1853, when I was President of the Board of Control. I have since consulted the Governor General of India, thinking it desirable to avail myself of any information I could procure on the subject, and I had hoped before now to have received his observations. I have again prepared the Bill, but have rather delayed its introduction, expecting to receive information from India. The Bill is ready in draft, and will be introduced, I hope, at an early period.

With regard to the other question, which is of still greater importance, as to alteration in the Legislative Council of India, the subject, as I stated last Session, was under the consideration of the members of the Indian Council. What had occurred in India, and the different opinions held on the subject of taxation in India, have rendered this a matter of more grave consideration than it was at the early period of last Session. I have communicated with the Governor General of India on the subject, and it is only to-day that I have received his opinions. No time shall be lost in introducing measures on these subjects into the House.

MR. VANSITTART

Are there any other Bills beside these?

SIR CHARLES WOOD

There is certainly no other Bill of any great importance.

Motion agreed to.

House at rising to adjourn till Monday next.