ADDRESS MOVED. (Hansard, 16 July 1861)

§ MR. T. DUNCOMBE
said, he rose to move that an Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that She would be graciously pleased to give directions that steps be taken to enable Her Majesty to appoint a Consul at Pesth. The position of the town of Pesth as a place of commercial importance had become greatly altered since the navigation of the Danube had been rendered more free by the operation of the arrangements entered into at the Congress of Paris in 1856. He had, he might add, on a former occasion, asked the noble Lord the Foreign Secretary whether he intended to appoint a Consul at Pesth, and his answer had been that he did not think the town stood in need of the appointment. The noble Lord had also on the same occasion stated that Mr. Dunlop had been withdrawn from Pesth at the request of Austria, but the very fact 1002 that Mr. Dunlop had been there for seven months appeared sufficient proof that diplomatic agency between us and that part of the world was required. Mr. Dunlop had been sent to Pesth by the Embassy at Vienna, to which he was attached, at the request of the Government, with the view of furnishing information to them with regard to what was going on in Hungary, and he had, he believed, during the period which he held office not only obtained the respect and esteem of all with whom he became acquainted, but had also supplied the authorities at home with most authentic reports—reports, however, which Austria did not like, as she feared they might create an unfavourable impression in this country with respect to her conduct towards her Hungarian subjects. Be that, however, as it might, the appointment was one of importance, as hon. Members would readily admit when he told them that Pesth and Buda, which were separated from one another only by a river, as in the case of Southwark and the City of London, and which, therefore, in reality constituted a single city, contained a population of not less than 300,000 inhabitants. Pesth had also a Chamber of Commerce, and steamboats without end; while he found, from statistics which had been furnished him from that quarter, that the population of that town, which had in 1780 been only 13,000, had in 1800 increased to 30,000, in 1850 to 83,000, and in 1857 to 136,666 persons, Buda being on the opposite side of the river, with a population as large. Notwithstanding its importance, however, we had no Consul there, the nearest Consulate to it being that at Galatz, which was 300 miles distant. Why that should be so he was wholly at a loss to conceive, especially when he bore in mind how our consular establishments were scattered all over the world. We had, for instance, within a small district of Turkey in Asia five Consuls—one at Damascus, with a salary of £500 a year; one at Aleppo, with a salary of £350; one at Antioch, with a salary of £200 one at Jerusalem, with a salary of £350; and one at Jaffa, with a salary of something like £300. Now, of all the gross jobs that had ever been perpetrated he believed the appointment of a Consul at Jaffa was the greatest. The gentleman who held that appointment, too, had advantages which other Consuls did not possess, inasmuch as he was allowed to trade, and to report direct to the Foreign Office instead of to the Em- 1003 bassy to which he belonged, as with one or two exceptions those filling similar positions were obliged to do. He was a native of Turkey, in Asia; he had been a Roman Catholic, had become a Protestant, and had promised, he believed, to build a great number of churches, but he did not know that that promise had in a single instance been carried into effect. Now, why there should be a Consul at Jaffa, and not one at Pesth, he did not understand. He would at all evets assure the House that he brought forward the present Motion at the request not only of a large number of persons resident in that city, but also of British subjects trading in that quarter. The noble Lord, indeed, had assigned as a reason for withdrawing Mr. Dunlop that it was not deemed desirable to give encouragement to any disaffected parties in Hungary. [Lord JOHN RUSSELL: I gave the Austrian version.] But he would ask the Austrian Government where they would find a man in Hungary who was not disaffected? Hungary sought the restitution of her ancient rights and constitution. Hungary asked for the restitution of her laws as they existed in 1848, and she would not give up a single point till Austria made that concession. It might be that Hungary at the present moment was following the advice of leaders to maintain the peace, but they might depend on it that the day was not far distant when the Hungarian question would again come before Europe, and might involve in it great difficulties. On a former evening he had asked whether the English Ambassador at Vienna had advised the Emperor of Austria not to receive the address from the Hungarian Diet at Pesth unless it fully recognized the Emperor's title as King of Hungary. The noble Lord at the head of the Government said there was not a word of truth in the Report. He hoped the noble Lord the Foreign Secretary, who was not in his place on the former evening, could adhere to the statement that there was not foundation for the report of the Hungarian address having been sent back from Vienna by the advice of the English Government. But he thought there was some mistake about it. The report that there had been some interference by England was believed at Paris; it was believed at Turin, and it was not denied at Vienna. He was authorized to say that nothing would give the Hungarian people more satisfaction than the establishment of some diplomatic relations with them by the ap- 1004 pointment of an English Consul at Pesth. At the present time, also, the steamers on the Danube were manned to a considerable extent by English engineers. These British subjects hoped the Government would take their case into consideration, and he had received a deputation from their body to request him urge upon the Government the necessity of considering their case, and to point out that they would feel much safer if there was a Consul at Pesth, to whom they could apply in any case of necessity. In every point of view, commercial and political, a Consul at Pesth was required. He hoped the Government would take the subject into its serious consideration. He was sure the more it inquired the more it would be convinced of the necessity of some Consular establishment in that large, rising, and important town.

MR. WHITE
seconded the Motion.

§ LORD JOHN RUSSELL
said, that he would say a few words on the subject. With respect to the political part to the question, his noble Friend at the head of Government was quite right in urging on a night when he (Lord John Russell) was absent that the British Government had nothing whatever to do with the sending back of the Address that was sent by the Diet of Hungary to the Emperor. It did not appear to him that it was the sort of question on which any Government would consult the Foreign Ministers about. If any Address had been forwarded to him for presentation to Her Majesty, in which her title of Queen was omitted, and styling her "Her and Mighty Lady," neither he nor his noble Friend would think of consulting any Foreign Minister as to the manner in which they should answer it. That was a point entirely for the consideration of the Minister of the Sovereign to whom the Address was sent. The Hungarian Diet themselves seemed to have felt that the title they gave was not proper, for they afterwards adopted another form of Address, which had been received. It was unnecessary, therefore, to discuss that point further. With regard to the subject of the hon. Gentleman's Motion, he did not think it necessary then to go into the subject of consular establishments generally, or the 1005 question of the Turkish Consuls in particular, as he did not think the House of Commons was the fitting place to decide where Consuls ought or ought not to be sent. With regard to Pesth, we had a diplomatic establishment at Vienna, and any representation could be made to the Court of Vienna which the Ministers of the Crown might think necessary. He had never been told by any persons interested in commerce that a Consul at Pesth was necessary. However, he was very glad to hear of the prosperity of Pesth, and if no war took place, if peace were maintained, and the resources and riches of Hungary continued to be developed, it might at some future time be of great advantage to appoint a Consul there. But he did not think there would be any advantage in such an appointment at that moment.

§ MR. HADFIELD
said, he would advise his hon. Friend to leave the matter in the hands of the noble Lord. The people of Hungary might be assured that the people of England would ever take a warm interest in their freedom.

§ MR. T. DUNCOMBE
said, he would not trouble the House to divide on the question. But the noble Lord should recollect that the House of Commons had to pay the expenses of the consular establishments; it was, therefore, the duty of the House to see that the money was not uselessly expended in the appointment of Consuls where they were not necessary. He believed that it was necessary to have one at Pesth; but he feared the noble Lord had given way too much to Austria in his foreign policy. In his opinion they did not want Austria as a counter-balance to France, for England never had a better ally than the Emperor of the French; and French and England, with a united Italy by their side, could defy the world.

§ MR. LAYARD
observed he was glad that his hon. Friend intended to withdraw his Motion. His hon. Friend seemed to be Under the impression that it depended upon the noble Lord whether there should be a British Consul at Pesth, but that was not so. No country could appoint a Consul to any place except with the consent of the Government of the country within which the place was situated. He thought the Austrian Government had been wrong in insisting upon the withdrawal of Mr. Dunlop, because it was far better that the British Government should receive authentic reports of what took place in Hungary 1006 rather than the unauthentic accounts which they would, otherwise, leave to rely upon.