HC Deb 15 February 1861 vol 161 cc487-9
MR. TURNER

moved that an Address be presented to the Crown for Copies of all Contracts entered into by the Government with Alexander Bankier Freeland for Hay, Clover, Beans, and Oats, from the 1st day of September, 1854, to the 31st day of December, 1858; the quantities of Hay, Clover, Beans, and Oats delivered; the sums of money paid in respect thereof, and the dates of payment. The hon. Gentleman said that a number of the Members of that House who took on themselves to recommend a course of economy to the Government had been somewhat animadverted upon, and told that they ought to attend in their places in the House, and object to the Estimates; but he thought something else might be done, and that the extravagance of Government in framing their statements of expenses ought to be exposed. He was not one of those who recommended economy with the view of impairing the national defences, or diminishing the dignity which this country ought to maintain in the presence of the other Powers of Europe, but for the purpose of preventing extravagant and unnecessary expenditure. His present Motion pointed to a piece of extravagance which, in his opinion, had been committed by the Government. The contract referred to was framed at the period of the Crimean war, at which time it was necessary to contract for a variety of agricultural produce. No one doubted that the Government would send some active officers to the agricultural districts to obtain the necessary supplies; but, instead of doing so, it appeared that they thought Manchester not only a manufacturing, but an agricultural locality. So two Government agents went down there to make contracts for hay, clover, oats, &c, and, after being looked coldly on by several houses to which the contracts were offered, they met with a gentleman named Alexander Bankier Freeland, and he believed they made a contract with that gentleman at such an extravagant price that £78,000 profit was realized on a sum of £300,000. This person was, it seemed, connected with his brothers in this contract; and having afterwards entered largely into the shipping trade and become bankrupts, they admitted in their examination at the Bankruptcy Court that they had made this profit out of the Government contract. He thought this a piece of extravagance which it was very desirable that the advocates of economy should look into, and for this purpose he moved for the Return. He understood that the Government had no objection to grant it, and he could not understand why it should take any very considerable time to furnish the information. As to the amount of money paid, if the accounts had been carefully kept, a clerk could make them out in a short time, and he protested by anticipation against any statement in answer that there would be a considerable delay in the production of the papers.

MR. T. G. BARING

replied, that on public grounds there could be no objection to the production of the Returns for which his hon. Friend had moved. The only hesitation he felt was that he understood, in the first instance, from the hon. Gentleman that the information was required not altogether for public purposes. He must beg the House to reserve its opinion with regard to the contracts—for which, however, the present Government was not responsible—until they had seen the papers. With respect to the time that it would take to produce the Returns, he had instituted inquiries, and was informed by the Commissary General-in-Chief that the transactions had taken place during the Crimean war, and that the deliveries were numerous and extensive—it would be improper for him, therefore, to deceive the House and the hon. Gentleman by pretending that these Returns could be presented very soon, though lie hoped they would before long be in the hands of hon. Members. He might further say that he was informed that the supplies of hay made by these contractors were very good and satisfactory, which had not been universally the case with the supplies received by the Government during the Crimean war.

House adjourned at half-after Six o'clock, to Monday next.