HC Deb 04 May 1860 vol 158 cc699-701
COLONEL SYKES

said, if the Council of India possessed the powers of the former Court of Directors there would be no necessity for his putting the question of which he had given notice. Each member of the Court of Directors had the power of introducing any subject for discussion, just as hon. Members of that House brought subjects before the House. But the Council of India had no such power. They could discuss nothing but what had been introduced by the Secretary of State, who, if he consulted them at all, might take their advice or not, as he pleased. The consequence was that they were dummies, or not, according to the policy of the Secretary for India. There was, however, one exception, and that was in respect to the disposal of public money, and in all financial questions the Secretary of State must obtain the consent of a majority of the Council to his acts. The reorganization of the army of India was a real financial question, and one in which a million of money might be wasted or saved according to the measures that were adopted. He, therefore, wished to ask the Secretary of State for India when he purposes taking the judgment of the Council of India upon the Report of the Military Committee upon the reorganization of the Indian Army; and whether he will lay the result upon the Table of the House, with the other papers promised, and at what time?

MR. SMOLLETT

said, he thought it was time that some definite information should be given to the House upon the important subject of the organization of the Indian army. There was a general opinion out of doors that there should be a large local force, irrespective of the Queen's troops, in India, and also that the delay that had taken place was as discreditable to the Indian Department as it was injurious to the public service. Before the mutiny there were 74 regiments of native infantry in the Bengal army. The rank and file of many of those regiments had now all disappeared; and yet the greatest part of the expense formerly connected with them was still being incurred in the pay of the officers. The expense of the Indian army amounted to something like £20,000,000 a year; a Commission had sat in this country on the subject of the reorganization of that army, but, so far, without any result, and he thought such a state of things was a discredit to the Indian Government, and most detrimental to the public service.

SIR CHARLES WOOD

said, he would not enter into the question of the state of the Bengal Army. It was a question not of Indian only, but of Imperial importance. There were few officers, indeed, belonging to the disbanded regiments who were not employed in one way or other. They were not paid for doing nothing, Many of them were employed in connection with the new levies, though of course when those levies ceased to be necessary the services of the officers would be no longer required. Others were employed in various ways. Up to the present moment no expense had been incurred in that respect, but such as was unavoidable. He was sorry the rank and file of so many of the seventy-four regiments, to which reference had been made, had disappeared in the way they had done; but he did not suppose that any hon. Member of that House would say that the officers belonging to those regiments should be deprived of their pay. With regard to the question put by his hon. and gallant Friend (Colonel Sykes), he hoped to be able to lay the papers on the table next week.

He came now to the questions asked by his hon. Friend (Mr. Kinnaird) and by the hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Vansittart), with reference to the relations between the indigo planters and the ryots. He quite agreed that the state of those relations for some years past had been anything but satisfactory. His hon. Friend (Mr. Kinnaird) seemed to think that no steps had been taken with the view to place those relations on a more satisfactory footing. But he appeared to have forgotten that an Act was passed in 1859, which he (Sir C. Wood) hoped would produce very considerable improvement in the relations between the planters and the ryots. That Act, however, had as yet hardly come into operation. The state of the relations between them was this,—the indigo planters obtained by purchase or lease zemindary rights, and thus became the landlords of the ryots. The planter let to the ryot on favourable terms the land over which he exercised those rights; he made him advances of money for carrying on his operations, but he imposed on him the obligation to grow a certain quantity of indigo. The consequence was, that the ryots were generally in debt to the planters, who by the exercise of the powers of zemindar, landlord, and creditor, kept them in a state of complete dependence, and he (Sir C. Wood) was very much afraid that in many cases those powers were exercised over them to an extent which the law would not sanction. The ryots had objected for some years to grow indigo, because they considered it was more profitable to them to grow other crops; and that state of affairs had led them to refuse to perform their contracts and to combine together to resist the planters. If it was true that sailors and soldiers had been brought up from Calcutta to assist the planters, it could not have been in consequence of the passing of any law, for the Government at home had received no account, publicly or privately, of the passing of a law. The necessity for a law had arisen practically from the state of things he had described. That being so, applications had been made to the authorities in Calcutta; he was not in possession of any official communication as to what had been done; the only information he had was contained in a private letter, dated the 23rd of March, stating the intention to introduce a Bill into the Legislative Assembly next day, for the purpose of dealing with the question. It did not, however, appear from that letter that it was intended to subject the infraction of a civil contract to criminal proceedings, but rather that a summary power was to be given of dealing with such infraction as a civil case. Some time ago an Act was passed authorizing magistrates to proceed criminally in those cases, but that Act was repealed in 1835, at the instance of the Court of Directors. All he could say on the subject was that the non-performance of those contracts must entail serious loss, and might lead in some cases to the absolute ruin of the indigo planters. He only begged that hon. Gentlemen would be good enough to suspend their judgment on the matter until they were in possession of the facts. The law, at any rate, whatever it might be, was only to be temporary; and in the meantime a Commission was to be issued to inquire into the state of the relations between the planters and the ryots, with the view, if possible, to place them in a more satisfactory footing.