VOLUNTEERS (IRELAND).—LEAVE. (Hansard, 17 July 1860)

§ COLONEL FRENCH
said, he felt that he should have to struggle against the opposition of Her Majesty's Government, backed by all the long-existing prejudices and groundless alarms of those English Members who, in the plenitude of their ignorance of Ireland, believed that any attempt to put Irishmen in possession of their national and political rights was fraught with danger to the Constitution, and that neither their loyalty nor their discretion would admit of any portion of them being trusted with arms. The question before the House was neither a religious nor a political one: the Government wished to render it both. It related solely to material Irish interests—possibly to Irish national existence. He did not attach blame to the Government, nor mean to accuse them of a slight to Ireland for not themselves bringing forward a Bill similar to that he was about to ask leave to introduce. It was well known that they were not favourable to the Volunteer movement in this country, and would, had they been able to do so, have crushed it in the bud. Public feeling as to the necessity of preparing for self-defence was too strong for them. They were not only forced to sanction, but compelled to assist in the movement. Rifle corps are now formed throughout Great Britain. With the sanction of the Executive Government, 140,000 are enrolled, and a sense of security has been created through the length and breadth of the land. The formation of a Rifle corps has been sanctioned in the Isle of Man; from Ireland alone is this privilege withheld. Up to the present time he did not consider Government was imperatively called on to take any direct step; the necessity for doing so did not arise until the subject was seriously taken up by the Irish people. The time, however, has arrived. The number of effectives who have already enrolled themselves with the Working Committee, at Dublin, up to Friday, the 13th of July, 1860, is five hundred men. This does not include a large number who are engaged in forming corps in the suburbs, 2107 estimated, on Saturday last, to amount to three hundred. Nor does it include the gentlemen of the Civil Service, who wished to form an exclusive corps in the first instance, but whom the working committee expect to enrol, to the number of about three hundred. And the University can turn out seven hundred. In addition to these figures, the Committee have received assurances from the heads of several monster houses in Dublin, that they will equip the young men in their employment, should the sanction of the Government be obtained, and allow a Saturday half-holiday for drill—the number estimated to be, at least, one thousand men. The banks of Dublin are not included in the foregoing estimate, but the committee have learned with certainty that their employés will join the movement, some twenty having been enrolled on Saturday.
[The hon. Gentleman here read a letter from the Secretary of the Rifle Volunteers in Dublin, showing the numbers who have desired to enrol their names.]
The offer made by the Civil Service in Dublin to enrol themselves, as has been done here and in Edinburgh, was refused to be accepted, in a letter signed by General Larcom, assigning as a reason that, though the Lord Lieutenant can sanction the embodiment of such corps, by the 42nd Geo. III., cap. 68, the Government have not the power to make rules and regulations for the enrolment and organization of Volunteers in Ireland. Such, however, he had from high legal authority was not the fact, as, by the common law of the land, Her Majesty could accept the services of her subjects under any conditions and legal forms it was her pleasure to adopt; but, as the opinion of the Irish Attorney General, given in reply to a question put by him (Colonel French), appeared to countenance the existence of a legal difficulty, his object in asking leave to introduce his Bill was to remove that impediment. He sought solely to assimilate the law in both countries, to render legal and allowable in Ireland what was now legal and allowable in Great Britain; and he could not see any just grounds on which Government could object to such a course. He sought not to pledge Ministers either to sanction or assist in the formation of Irish Volunteer Corps, but solely to enable them to form, with the sanction of Government, if that sanction was obtained. By hesitating to give their assent to a measure such as this, what were they doing? They were point- 2108 ing out to Europe that Ireland was the weakest and least to be depended on portion of the Empire, and doing all in their power, should hostilities arise between England and any of the Great Powers, to subject us to an invasion.
What was the position in which Ireland would be placed by them, in the event of an invasion of England? As a matter of necessity, all the troops of the Line would be withdrawn from Ireland, and, probably, our 13,000 police force, as it is paid from the Consolidated Fund, would also be called for. Ireland would have to depend on about 40,000 disembodied Militia, if they could be got together. You tell the Continental nations you will neither defend us nor permit us to organize a force for our own defence; that Ireland is the country to invade—"Hit the Irish hard; they have no friends." Notwithstanding all this, my reliance on the loyalty and courage of our people is such, that I confidently assert an invading army will receive in Ireland nothing but hard blows, and that they would not bring away from their shores alive a single man of their force. Volunteer Corps in Ireland, from the expenses of the outfit and other causes, would necessarily only be capable of being formed in our large towns, and, in addition to the assistance they would afford in repelling an invading army, be of the utmost service in rendering those towns places of security for the lives and properties of persons resident in the counties. They would serve as an effectual check in cases of disturbances against bodies of ill-disposed persons, who, in all countries, in cases of invasion, congregate solely for plunder. But even this Her Majesty's Government are not disposed to allow us.
The objections that have been made to the formation of a Volunteer force in Ireland are threefold:—1st. That the movement would be a sectarian one; that the regiments would be exclusively composed of Protestants. Such, however, would not be the case. Take the chief towns in each of the provinces, and see how it would stand. If Dublin turned out 10,000 men, one half, at least, would be Catholics. Belfast would, he admitted, have a force chiefly Presbyterians; but Cork and Galway would have a very large proportion of Catholics.
The second objection was leaving arms in their possession—an objection which could not arise, as in Ireland, as it was in England, the arms would be retained in 2109 the depôts, and only used at the time of drill.
The third objection was that, from religious differences, bloodshed must ensue, from bringing together masses of Protesttants and Catholics. His answer to this was, that the very reverse would be the case; that doing so would enable the people to know and esteem each other, as was the case in the embodiment of the Militia; and that it would tend to put an end to those party collisions which were a disgrace to any civilized country. Had it not been for the policy of the Government, so long and so pertinaciously continued, of dividing the Irish people, such a scene as that which has lately occurred at Lurgan would never have taken place. How long was this distrust of Ireland to continue? How long was this system of separating classes and religions to be fostered r By it you have long paralyzed the right arm of England; and he trusted his noble Friend at the head of the Government would not be influenced, by the weakness and want of political foresight of the Chief Governor of Ireland, to suffer it to continue. The loyalty, the determined courage, the physical strength of the Irish people, would enable them to repel any invader. They feared not the power of Prance; what they were apprehensive of was, the timidity of Government, who objected to allow them the means of preparation accorded to every other part of the kingdom; who were weakening the United 'Kingdom, and insulting the Irish Nation.

§ VISCOUNT PALMERSTON
said, that if the Government had thought that on the whole the formation of Rifle Corps in Ireland was desirable they would themselves have brought in a Bill; but for various reasons which he had had the honour to state the other evening, they did not think it was expedient, and therefore they could not agree to the Motion. It was not from any distrust of the Irish people that they took this course; neither was it because the Government doubted the perfect readiness of Irish Volunteers to fight. The fear was rather that in the absence of an external enemy they might indulge themselves in encounters which would not be exactly sham fights.

COLONEL DICKSON
observed that every Irishman must regret to hear his countrymen spoken of in the way they had been spoken of by the noble Lord. The noble Lord laboured under a great mistake in thinking there would be danger of their fighting amongst themselves.

§ MR. O'BRIEN
said, he must beg leave to differ from the opinion of the hon. and gallant Member for Roscommon (Colonel French). He was not prepared to say that he would support a Motion which would only arm certain persons in the North of Ireland, and create a distinction he should not like to see.

§ COLONEL GREVILLE
said, the question was one of great importance; and as it was likely to lead to much discussion he would move that the House do adjourn.