LORDS' AMENDMENTS. (Hansard, 12 July 1859)

VISCOUNT DUNCAN
said, that this Bill was very similar to the Red Sea Telegraph Bill which they discussed yesterday, and before it was disposed of he wished the Secretary to the Treasury to explain one of the clauses of the Bill, which seemed to him the most extraordinary he had ever heard of in a private Bill. He alluded to the 15th Clause, which was as follows:— It shall be lawful, for the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury and the Company by mutual agreement, from time to time to rescind, modify, or alter any agreement or arrangements now in force under the first recited Act, or which might be at any time hereafter made and entered into. 1041 The effect of this clause seemed to be to dispense altogether with the necessity of the consent of the House of Commons. It went on to provide— That for assisting and facilitating the Atlantic Company's undertaking, the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury might, on behalf of Her Majesty and Her Majesty's Government, from time to time make and enter into such agreement with the Company as they might think proper for appropriating and applying any fixed or varying annual payment or dividend upon all or part of the present or of any further capital of the company as a guarantee of the dividends of the company. He asked the Secretary of the Treasury what was the nature of the powers that were sought to be taken by the Lords of the Treasury under this clause in a private Bill?

§ MR. LAING
said, the object of the clause to which his noble Friend adverted was to enable the Treasury to carry out with the Company the terms of the contract which had been agreed upon by then-predecessors before the present Ministry came into office. The terms of the agreement were in substance, that the Government should guarantee a minimum dividend of 8 per cent on a capital of £600,000, the guarantee, however, being entirely conditional on the success of the undertaking. The guarantee was only to come into effect in case the cable was laid down successfully, so as to work at least 100 words per hour. He did not know that it was necessary for him to go into the details of the arrangement. It was not open to the objection that was taken to the Red Sea Telegraph guarantee, but was a guarantee conditional on the work done. He believed that if the cable were successfully laid, the commercial receipts would return the sum, or nearly the sum guaranteed. However, the arrangement had been made by their predecessors, and was therefore binding on the present Government; and after the decision of the House last night in the case of the Red Sea Telegraph, he trusted that the further stages of the Bill would not be opposed.

§ COLONEL WILSON PATTEN
asked if the guarantee were to continue, in case the cable should be broken?

§ MR. LAING
replied, that it would be continued only so long as messages could be transmitted at the rate he had mentioned.

§ SIR JAMES GRAHAM
said, the difference between the two cases was, that the guarantee to the Red Sea Telegraph 1042 Company was an unconditional guarantee for fifty years, whereas this was a conditional guarantee for twenty-five years. He thought it absolutely necessary, if this system of guarantees by the Treasury was to continue, that the responsible Minister should appear in his place in the House and state what was the precise nature of the arrangement that had been entered into. He hoped that this matter was about to undergo a prospective and serious investigation. He took the opportunity of saying that he did not, when making observations yesterday on a kindred measure, either directly or indirectly mean to infer that there was any neglect on the part of the Speaker with reference to the Bill. It was true that a money resolution had been moved, but somehow, either so early or so late, as not to attract the notice of the House. It was also true that the money clause was printed in italics, but as it was a private Bill, and not more than twelve or twenty were circulated, and unless a Member asked for it, it was not sent to him, that was no notice. He hoped there would be no more such loose arrangements, or that they would be more deliberately submitted to the judgment of the House.

§ LORD JOHN MANNERS
denied that the arrangements made with regard to this telegraph were framed, as the right hon. Baronet alleged, in a loose manner. From his own personal knowledge he could state that they formed the subject of more than one anxious deliberation on the part of the Cabinet, and he believed that they were conducive to the public interest.