§ MR. M. MILNESsaid, that according to notice, he rose to call the attention of the House to the appointment of Consuls and Vice-Consuls to Japan, in connection with the evidence and report of the recent Committee on the Consular Service, and in so doing he should not occupy the attention of the House for any length of time. The enterprise and skill of our fellow-countrymen having recently opened and brought into contact with this country a nation hitherto almost unknown, the Government very properly organized a body of English representatives who were to repair to that country to protect our interests and do their best to open fresh 860 sources of trade and commerce. It was evident that the persons must fitted for such duties would be persons who had a special training for the purpose, or who at least were acquainted with commercial matters. The House would recollect that a Committee had been appointed to inquire into the subject of the Consular Service, last year, owing to an opinion entertained by many hon. Members, that the service required a more close and complete organization, by which the commerce of the country would be benefited. He was Chairman of that Committee; and he wished to express his deep sense of the moderation and good feeling which prevailed among members of the Committee, who agreed to an unanimous report, which, however, did not come up altogether to the views entertained by some of them. The report did not recommend the limitation of the persons to be chosen for the Consular Service, but left a large and free scope to the Foreign Office with regard to the selection of gentlemen for those posts. Still they wished to place some restrictions on the free action hitherto allowed to the Foreign Secretary. They recommended for instance that in the Levant, and the countries conterminous to the Levant, there should be as much professional character in the consuls as possible, and as much distinction between them and the general consuls in Europe as possible; and also that in one portion of the globe there should be continued the close consular service which was found to be in existence. It was in evidence before the Committee, and stated by Mr. Hammond, that no one was appointed to the Consular Service in China and Siam who had not been regulary educated for that Service. Therefore, in framing the Consulate of Japan, which was analogous to that of China, it was natural to suppose that the same rule which the Foreign Office had wisely established would be followed. The Government had, indeed, most judiciously placed at the head of the Consulate of Japan, Mr. Rutherford Alcock, of whom he would speak with all praise, and of whom it might be said, in the words of the Quarterly Review, that he had filled every function in China, from a viceroy to a baliff. This gentleman was appointed to the head of the establishment on account of his knowledge of China and Siam, the Foreign Office considering the duties to be performed by him in Japan to be of an analogous description. But it might be 861 fairly asked, why had not the system been entirely carried out? Why, out of eleven appointments, should there be any which were not satisfactory to the commercial community? Why, with the wide field open to the noble Lord with all persons in China and Siam to choose from, were persons chosen in this country who were not fitted for the duties of the office? If the ten others were eminently fitted, it might be said, why be critical with regard to the eleventh? He was not a stern purist in matters where the public interest was not involved. But as regarded Captain Vyse, it was like the First Lord of the Admiralty saying that there were an immense number of lieutenancies in the navy, and why should not he put one of his friends into one of them, although the person appointed had never served in the navy at all. The Committee on the Consular Service had recommended this part of the consular establishment to be close service, not only on account of the high salaries which were attached to the appointments, but because of the peculiar duties to be discharged, persons were required who had gone through much previous labour, and obtained much experience. The Committee, therefore, bad a right to complain that in the first scheme of appointments since they made their report their recommendations were not complied with. The practice at the Foreign Office had been for the first time departed from, and that in the teeth of the recommendations of the Committee, and he (Mr. Milnes) as Chairman of that Committee, wished to express their feeling that on the first opportunity their recommendations were not carried out. He did not wish to exaggerate the case, but with so large a scope as the Foreign Minister possessed it was surprising that it was even now thought advisable to make appointment of persons so unfitted for their duties, and to cast such a slur both on the Consular Service and the resolutions of the Committee.
MR. SEYMOUR FITZGERALDSir, I cannot complain of the observations made by the hon. Gentleman, inasmuch as it affords me the opportunity of making a full, and I believe more satisfactory state meat, than I was able to make on a former occasion, in reply to a question from the hon. Member for Stafford (Mr. Wise). At the same time, I was in hopes that the reply I was then enabled to give would have tended to prevent a repetition of 862 questions of this kind, which being personal in their character, and, in my opinion, somewhat invidious, ought not, I am sure, according to the notions of the House, to be entered into unless some imperative necessity, or the good of the public service, require them to be raised. I was certainly inclined to hope that the answer I gave to the question of the hon. Member for Stafford was sufficient to manifest the great care and attention paid to those appointments by the head of the Foreign Office, and consequently that it would have prevented the repetition of such a question coming, at all events, from the hon. Gentleman opposite, who, I must say, for many years has not troubled the House with any remarks upon appointments of a similar character, although I venture humbly to think that many of them must have been open to objection. I certainly thought that we should not have heard such a subject broached by the hon. Gentleman, who, upon no occasion—certainly not with regard to appointments made in high quarters, and where possibly qualifications might have been in question—has yet thought it his duty to make any comment. At the same time, as I said, I believe I shall be able to give a most satisfactory answer to the statement of the hon. Member. I think it will be found that the hon. Gentleman, in the course he has thought proper to take, is an instance how arguments and statements which are rather calculated to provoke a smile than to carry conviction are sometimes found in the mouths of those who are ordinarily considered gentlemen of intelligence and acuteness. The hon. Gentleman has put the case before the House not exactly on the ground chosen by 'the hon. Member for Stafford. The hon. Gentleman has put the case rather on the ground that, according to the evidence given before the Consular Committee, appointments of this kind should not be made inasmuch as those promotions should be considered as of a close and exclusive character. Now, the evidence certainly did point to the propriety of maintaining the Consular Service in China as an exclusive and close service; and we were told by Mr. Hammond, my colleague, that a considerable expense had been incurred in order to induce young men to enter the lower branches of the consular service in China, because it was thought necessary to obtain for those who were hereafter to fill the higher appointments a practical know- 863 ledge of the Chinese language. I am willing to admit that the ground upon which this large expense had been incurred was a sound and proper ground; and that this Consular Service should be regarded as far as possible as an exclusive and close service. But what is the hon. Gentleman's proposition now, and what does he ask the House to assent to? The hon. Gentleman says that we have gone to a great expense in educating young men in the knowledge of the Chinese language, and that we have a right to hold out to them the prospect of promotion in the Consular Service in China. Therefore, those Consular servants ought to be appointed in places where the Chinese language is utterly unknown, where the manners and customs of the people are wholly different, and where even the language of interpretation is different. We should, he says, have taken those young men whom we have gone to the trouble and expense of educating in the Chinese language from a place where their knowledge would be very useful and have placed them where their acquirements would be wholly useless, and in a wholly different service to that for which we expressly intended them. As I have observed, the service in Japan is totally different to that in China. The hon. Gentleman has referred in terms of approbation to the appointment of Mr. Alcock. It was thought advisable to put at the head of the service a gentleman long known in the East by his successful efforts to promote trade, whose character was respected, and whose fame might possibly Live extended to the seat of his future labours. But when the hon. Gentleman speaks of the necessity of appointing commercial gentlemen to those posts, let us consider how far advisable it is for us to limit ourselves to that exclusive service. What is Mr. Alcock? He has been in the army. The very gentleman spoken of by the hon. Member, as a good specimen of what a consul ought to be, has been a military surgeon. Surely, it was not by his surgical experience that he became peculiarly qualified for the office of Consul. His avocations in that respect were not calculated to confer upon him any of those qualifications which the hon. Member seems to think essential for a Consul in China. It is now a fair question to ask, even supposing that it was a desirable thing to promote those student interpreters in China to offices in Japan on the ground of their understanding a language which would be utterly useless to them there—what are the pro- 864 motions which have taken place in the Consular establishments of China? In protesting against the appointment of Captain Vyse to a Vice-Consulship in Japan, the hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. M. Milnes) forgets to inquire as to what has been done in China in respect of offices for which these student interpreters are really well qualified. I find that student interpreters have been selected for offices at Amoy, Tchin-Sin, Nang-po, Foo-choo-foo, and Tchin-Sin Wang. Taking the names of first assistants, I find those of Mr. Leigh, Mr. Gregory, Mr. Hughes, and Mr. Adams; and as second assistants at Canton and Shanghai, I find Mr. Jones and Mr. Howlett, who have been student interpreters. There are no less than seven student interpreters who are to be appointed on Mr. Bruce's selection, there being only thirteen at present in the training establishment. Why, so numerous have been the promotions that we are ourselves utterly denuded of students who have a competent knowledge of the Chinese language. Those who are not receiving promotions are the students who have been sent out at the latest period, and who, consequently, do not possess those qualifications which the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Monckton Milnes) says would be so valuable—namely, knowledge of Chinese to be used in Japan. The hon. Gentleman also found fault with Captain Vyse's appointment, because the gallant officer is not a commercial man. Now, Sir, on that part of the case, the first question I should like to ask is this—Is it to be a rule laid down by this House, or is it to be a rule laid down by any Committee of this House, that having served Her Majesty either in the army or the navy, is to be a disqualification for appointment in the Consular Service? The hon. Gentleman has referred to the case of Mr. Alcock); and I shall take the liberty of alluding to another. There are few gentlemen in this country at all acquainted with Chinese affairs to whom the name of Mr. Wade is unknown. I believe a more distinguished man is not in the service. Well, then, Mr. Wade was in the army and served in the 93rd Highlanders, with distinction in China. [Cheers from the Opposition.] I perceive from that cheer that it was not the possession of commercial knowledge or a knowledge of the language of the country, but the fact of his having led a company of his regiment in China, that in the opinion of hon. Gentlemen opposite constitute Mr. Wade's qualification for a consular 865 appointment in China. There are many others who entered the Consular Service in subordinate positions and afterwards worked their way to very distinguished posts, for which their fitness is generally admitted. Taking Central America, I find the names of Mr. Wyke and Mr. Chalfield. Then we find the Consulship of the Levant and Aleppo filled by Mr. Skene. Who was he? An officer in the British service. In the army and navy officers acquire habits of discipline, of attention, of responsibility, of decision, and willingness to act upon their own judgment in cases of emergency; all of which habits are, in my opinion, most valuable for a Consul. So far from disqualifying gentlemen for Consular appointments, it is a fact that the army and navy have given the Consular Service some of the most valuable public servants that the British Government can boast of. One word more and I have done. The hon. Gentleman spoke of this appointment as a valuable one; and I heard the remark made by others, that the amount of salary for this office is considerable. Sir, the amount of salary paid for any office must be regarded in relation to the nature of the duty to be performed, and the circumstances under which it is to be discharged. I do not think, looking at the expense of living in the East, and to the utter severance of all home and social ties, which a man must sustain when he takes an appointment in the distant b region of Japan—I do not think such a salary as that which Captain Vyse is to receive is too large to tempt a man to leave his country. An hon. Gentleman, a Member of this House, well known for the magnitude of his transactions, has told me that within a very recent period he sent out a young man to take a part in commercial affairs in China. He had to pay him £700 for the first year, £800 for the next, and at the present time this young man, who is not yet three-and-twenty years of age, is receiving a salary of £1,000 per annum. I would ask, then, whether such a salary as Captain Vyse is to receive is likely to make the appointment one for which there would be great competition. Sir, I have already stated those appointments in China which were consequent on the new arrangements were strictly appointments in the shape of promotions. I have now shown the House that the vacancies created by those appointments have been filled up strictly and exclusively from the ranks of that class which the hon. 866 Gentleman (Mr. M. Milnes) has taken under his protection. I hope, for the sake of the country, and of those engaged in the Consular Service, that having put these facts fairly and candidly before the House and the country, we shall cease to hear of these—I will not use any offensive words—but these unfair attacks on appointments such as this, an appointment of a gentleman of ability and station to a service in which I hope and believe he will in future distinguish himself.
§ MR. WISEsaid, that he and his hon. Friend wished, and, indeed, it was more expedient to discuss these matters on principle, and not on personal grounds. However, if he wanted to quote an example which should encourage him to continue in the course he had pursued with reference to these appointments, he should refer to the speech made in 1842 by the right hon. Gentleman the leader of that House, on Consular appointments, made by the noble Lord the Member for Tiverton. In that speech, the right hon. Gentleman stated that those appointments were owing to political influence. The hon. Gentleman, the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs (Mr. S. FitzGerald), therefore had no right to complain that the question of his hon. Friend (Mr. M. Milnes), was intrusive and invidious. The Under-Secretary of State had not at all alluded to the question really before the House. What he principally complained of was this,—that instead of permitting persons well qualified to act as Vice-Consuls, and discharge the important duties of the Consul when ill or absent, persons were selected who had not been accustomed to commercial habits, and had never studied the people of the country. The Government might have provided for their young friends by appointing them to some of the Dutch Consulates, where there was little to do, and sending the Consuls from Amsterdam, Rotterdam, or Surinam, to Japan, where their knowledge of the Dutch language would have been available, as that was the medium of interpretation in Japan. But he was still more anxious to call the attention of the Government to the fact, that the gentleman recently appointed to Japan had not been, and could not be, nominated according to the rules of the Foreign Office itself. Indeed, it was not to be expected that a young gentleman like Captain Vyse, could be qualified to discharge the responsible duties which, in the absence of the Consul-General, might 867 devolve on him. The rules for the examination of candidates for Consular appointments were these:—
Persons selected for the Consular Service—whenever the circumstance of their being resident in England on their first appointment, or of their passing through England on their way to take up such first appointment, may admit of their being subjected to examination—will be expected to satisfy the Civil Service Commissioners—
- "1. That they have a correct knowledge of the English language, so as to be able to express themselves clearly and correctly in writing.
- "2. That they can write and speak French correctly and fluently.
- "3. That they have a sufficient knowledge of the current language—as far as commerce is concerned—of the port at which they are appointed to reside, to enable them to communicate directly with the authorities and natives of the place; a knowledge of the Italian language being taken to meet this requirement, as far as any place situated to the cast of the Straits of Gibraltar is concerned; and a knowledge of the German language, as regards ports within the Baltic, or countries having ports in the Baltic.
A sufficient knowledge of British mercantile and commercial law, to enable them to deal with questions arising between British shipowners, shipmasters, and seamen. As regards this head of examination, candidates must be prepared to be examined in Smith's Compendium of Mercantile Law."Last year these orders were thought to be very good, and it was expected that in all cases they would be carried out; he should be glad to hear why, in the case of this gentleman, they had not been attended to? He hoped the Foreign Office would look seriously into the duties required of the different Eastern Consuls, because it was impossible any person not brought up to the system of business in China, could sufficiently represent this country there. The hon. Gentleman had taken great credit to the Government for many appointments; but there was one case to which he must be permitted to call the attention of the hon. Gentleman. On a former occasion it was distinctly stated on the part of the Government that Mr. Barbar, our late Vice-Consul at Naples, would be appointed to a post worth double the one he held there. He knew something of the place to which Mr. Barbar had been sent, and he must say, to transfer any one from Naples to Canes, was very like sending him from heaven to hell. Canea was in Candia; the country had no roads; was colder than Scotland, and the bread was very black and sandy. The salary was £500 a year, with office expenses to pay; he believed at Naples Mr. Barbar had an income varying from £400 to £600 in the absence of the Minister. 868 He knew nothing of Mr. Barbar, but considered that gentleman under the protection of the House. He had acted as English Minister in Naples, and it was distinctly understood he was to receive a good appointment within a short time. Yet, he believed Mr. Barber's family, his wife and children, were compelled to remain at Naples, not daring to go to the place to which he had been appointed; the climate was so bad, and the country so inhospitable.
MR. SEYMOUR, FITZGERALDsaid, he would beg to add a word in explanation. He would not, upon the present occasion, touch upon the particular case to which the hon. Gentleman had adverted, but would be ready to do so at any other time; but, in reference to the regulations and orders of the Foreign Office, he might state that during the whole time there had been Consular Offices in China, these rules have never been applicable, and have never been applied to a single appointment.
§ VISCOUNT PALMERSTON—Sir, the hon. Gentleman the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs, has alluded to appointments which have been made by my noble Friend the Earl of Clarendon and myself. Originally appointments in China were made—that of Mr. Allcock and others—when the ports bad been first opened, and no system established by which young men could succeed to the Consulship; but, these arrangements having been made, I am authorised by my noble Friend, the Earl of Clarendon, to say that he appointed no students as interpreters in China, except those who were recommended by Dr. Jelf, the head of King's College, and that institution was selected because in that place alone instruction was given in the Chinese language. The hon. Gentleman the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs said the language of China differed from that of Japan. I do not profess to have the same knowledge of the Chinese and Japanese languages as the hon. Gentleman, but I should think there is more of analogy between the language of Japan and the language of China than there is between the language of St. James's Street and the language of Japan, and that, after all, a course of study under a Professor of King's College is perhaps a better preparation for Japan than a course of study at Knightsbridge Barracks.
Motion agreed to.
House at rising to adjourn till Monday next.
869 Order of the Day for the House to go into Committee of Supply.
Moved, That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair.