LEAVE. (Hansard, 10 February 1859)

LORD NAAS
said, that the Acts relating to Irish county prisons were fourteen in number, and that considerable difficulty having arisen in their interpretation the consolidation of these statutes was much needed. He proposed to repeal all those Acts and re-enact the law in one concise code, so that all the functionaries of these establishments might be able to see at a glance what their powers and duties were. In addition to this, there were some changes urgently required, to which he wished to draw attention. At present the Board of Superintendence was appointed by the grand jury twice in every year. He proposed that the appointment should be made only once a year—at the spring assizes, when the greatest number of grand jurors attended, and when the subject could be more fully considered. He proposed to make it mandatory on the Board of Superintendence to appoint a deputy-governor, a schoolmaster, and a schoolmistress, in addition to the present gaol officers, and to give power to the Board to fix the salaries of all the officers. He proposed that the Board of Superintendence should lay before the grand jury an estimate of the sum necessary for defraying the ex- 223 penses of the gaol for the ensuing year, and that the estimate so submitted should be noted by the jury as an imperative presentment. Great inconvenience was now felt with regard to the mode of procedure as to the salaries of the officers of gaols. According to the present law they could not be paid as their salaries became due, unless there happened to be a balance in the treasurer's hands of the sums left over from the last levy, so that they had often to wait a considerable time before they were paid. He thought they ought not to be in a different position from that of other public officers, but should receive their salaries half-yearly or quarterly, as they became due. Although the state of the Irish gaols was generally very good, and although there were as good county gaols in Ireland as in any other part of the Queen's dominions, still there were a few lamentable exceptions to that state of things. The establishment at Waterford was deficient in almost every requisite for the proper conduct of a gaol. There was little accommodation, no provision for instruction, and even a deficient supply of water. The gaol of the city of Kilkenny was remarked upon by the Inspector General in his last Report as equally deficient, and such was its state of over-crowding and want of accommodation that only a fortnight ago, as Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant, he was obliged to make an order for the removal of prisoners to the county gaol. He proposed in this Bill to lay down all the requisites necessary to the proper conduct of a prison, and to give power to the Lord Lieutenant to declare, after notice, that unless those requisites were fulfilled the prison complained of should not be a legal place of detention for the county or city to which it belonged. In a subsequent clause the Lord Lieutenant had power to order the grand jury to provide accommodation in such cases, and there was further power that, in the event of the grand jury refusing, the Lord Lieutenant should appoint Commissioners to provide proper accommodation. While the condition of the county gaols was generally very good, the condition of the bridewells in Ireland was as bad as could possibly be, and he referred the House for proof of that statement to the last Report of the Inspector General on prisons. The bride-wells were 113 in number. In not less than fifty-three there was no supply of water; all of them were small, ill-ventilated, dirty; no means of classification ex- 224 isted in any, and many of them were totally unfit for the detention of prisoners. It was contrary to law confine prisoners in them after trial, but they were frequently detained in them a considerable period before trial. It was a barbarous thing to confine prisoners in such horrible places as many of the bridewells of Ireland were, and he proposed to adopt somewhat the same plan as he had stated with regard to gaols; namely, to define certain requisites and to give power to the Lord Lieutenant to close these bridewells if the provisions of the law were not fulfilled. These were the principal provisions of the Bill. It had been prepared with great labour and pains, and be hoped it would receive the support of the House. The noble Lord concluded by moving for leave to introduce a Bill for consolidating and amending the laws relating to county prisons in Ireland.

§ COLONEL FRENCH
said, he did not rise to offer any objection to the introduction of the Bill. At the same time he must say that it appeared to him to contain a most objectionable principle throughout; namely, that it gave the Executive Government a power of taxation for the whole of the year by the election of the Board of Superintendence at the spring assizes. That would render it incumbent on the grand jury to levy the expenditure for the twelvemonth instead of, as now, for the half-year. He also objected to the powers given to the Lord Lieutenant to compel presentments and to tax the counties ad libitum. Such an objectionable doctrine had never been submitted to in England, and he hoped it would never be permitted in Ireland. The prisons up to the present time had been managed by efficient officers, and he saw no reason to change the system of payment. On the whole, while he thought the consolidation of the laws on this subject would be an advantage, he hoped that time would be given for the due consideration of the details of the Bill, which were extremely important.

LORD NAAS
said, that he proposed to lay down distinctly in his Bill those requisites which the House would see were absolutely necessary. The same power they now possessed would be left to the grand jury for carrying out necessary orders. It would only be in the case of the grand jury refusing to comply, not with the will of the Lord Lieutenant, but with the law of the land, that the Lord Lieutenant would be empowered to step in. He believed that if any bon. Gentleman would read that part 225 of the Inspectors of Prisons Report which referred to the present condition of the bridewells he would not come to the conclusion that it was asking too much, that the Government should be invested with this power. He did not apprehend that this measure would cause additional taxation, but believed that the ratepayers would find it, in the end, conducive to economy.