HC Deb 03 June 1858 vol 150 cc1503-6

Order for Committee read.

MR. HEADLAM moved that the House go into Committee on this Bill.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair."

MR. BUCHANAN

said, that at that late hour (twelve o'clock) it was impossible that so important a measure could be properly discussed. He therefore moved the adjournment of the debate.

MR. HEADLAM

said, that as the Government had refused to appoint a day for the consideration of the Bill, he saw no reason why the House should not go into Committee at once.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

remarked, that if there was no prospect of any prolonged discussion, he hoped the House would consent to pass the Bill through Committee.

MR. MALINS

urged the propriety of proceeding, on the ground that if private Members were to go on night after night, putting off their Bills because it was past twelve o'clock, they would never pass any measure. The principle of the Bill had already been discussed, and the Committee could not occupy more than ten minutes, and he hoped the hon. and learned Gentleman would be allowed to proceed.

MR. WILSON

said, that he should have to propose some additions in Committee; and if it was the wish of the House he was perfectly ready to proceed.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the debate be now adjourned."

The House divided:—Ayes 77; Noes 140: Majority 63.

Question again proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair."

MR. WILSON

said, he rose to move that it be an Instruction to the Committee, but—

MR. WALPOLE

, as a point of order, objected that the hon. Gentleman was too late, after the Motion for going into Committee had been moved and decided.

MR. SPEAKER

said, he was of opinion that the hon. Gentleman could move his Instruction as an Amendment to the Motion that "the Speaker do now leave the Chair."

MR. WILSON

said, as they were about to remove the exemption of unlimited liability from banking companies, it was only right to do the same in respect of insurance companies. There was a special as well as a general reason for the Instruction which he proposed. At present the law of limited liability did not extend to insurance companies, but practically their liability was limited, for there was a clause inserted in all policies stating that insurers should only look to the funds of the society for payment. It would be only right to make the change he proposed, for most persons were quite unaware of the clause in their policies which limited the liability of their insurers, and therefore one uniform law would be for the public convenience and advantage.

Amendment proposed— To leave out from the word 'That' to the end of the Question, in order to add the words 'it be an Instruction to the Committee that they have power to extend the provisions of the Bill to Insurance Companies,'" instead thereof.

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

MR. COWAN

said, he was surprised at the change of views which had come over the hon. Gentleman since he presided over a Committee in 1853, which reported that the law affecting insurance companies was defective, that many abuses existed, and that companies were established without any expectation of succeeding.

MR. LYGON

rose to order, and appealed to the Speaker whether, under Regulation 203 of the House, it was competent for the hon. Member for Devonport (Mr. Wilson) to raise this discussion.

MR. SPEAKER

said, the rule referred to pointed out to Members the most convenient course in moving an Instruction:—That the Instruction should be moved before the Motion that the Speaker do leave the Chair; but as that stage had been passed, it was not contrary to order to move the Instruction as an Amendment.

MR. COWAN

then resumed, and expressed his regret that the hon. Member for Devonport (Mr. Wilson) had not introduced a Bill upon the subject of insurance companies, as was expected from him after drawing up the Report to which he had referred.

MR. HEADLAM

said, he did not object to the proposed instruction.

MR. BUCHANAN

said, he thought they were entering upon a very wide subject, embracing many points of considerable importance, and that it was therefore extremely inexpedient they should proceed with the discussion at so late a period of the night.

MR. WARREN moved the adjournment of the debate.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the debate be now adjourned."

SIR WILLIAM HEATHCOTE

said, he saw no reason why the instruction should not be assented to, inasmuch as there would be ample opportunity of discussing the merits of the proposition when the Bill went into Committee.

MR. HEADLAM

said, that if the power were given to consider the subject in Committee, he should ask to go no further than that Mr. Speaker should leave the Chair, when he should assent to the Motion for reporting progress.

MR. HENLEY

said, he thought the House was placed in a position of some difficulty, owing to the circumstance that the Motion of the hon. Member for Devonport was put as an Amendment to that for going into Committee. If that Amendment were carried, he did not see how it would be possible to go into Committee.

MR. BOUVERIE

observed that, as to vote in favour of the instruction would be in point of fact to vote against going into Committee, he should suggest to his hon. Friend the Member for Devonport the expediency of withdrawing his Motion.

MR. WILSON

said, he would withdraw his Amendment if his hon. and learned Friend (Mr. Headlam) did not press his Motion for going into Committee that night.

MR. HEADLAM

said, he would agree to postpone the going into Committee till to-morrow.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Question again proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

Amendment and Motion, by leave withdrawn.

Committee deferred till this day.