HC Deb 23 July 1858 vol 151 cc2038-42
MR. VERNON SMITH

said, he wished to take this opportunity of putting a question to the noble Lord the President of the Board of Control respecting the condition of affairs in India. It had been the custom of late years at the close of the Session, for the Minister for India to make a general statement to the House relative to the affairs of India. He was not, however, about to express any wish that the noble Lord should bring forward an Indian budget, as the noble Lord could make the same excuse as he (Mr. V. Smith) had made last year, namely, that the finances of India were in such a state of confusion that it was impossible to make any accurate statement with regard to them. But though nominally a budget, that statement was accustomed to contain a review of the affairs of India. The House was about to separate for five mouths; they were giving great powers to the Government with regard to India, and it was advisable that the noble Lord should make a general statement with regard to the exact position in which we were placed. The noble Lord had stated, in answer to the hon. Member for Dumfries, that 17,000 additional troops had been sent out to India. He (Mr. V. Smith) had asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer last night, but had not received an answer, whether the troops were really to be regarded as an addition to the ordinary establishment of Queen's troops already stationed there, or were to be looked upon merely in the light of reliefs. Judging from the number of men who were being sent out, he should be inclined to believe that the Government had the former object in view; but then it would appear from the newspapers, which constituted the only source of information open to him, that, owing to disease, and other causes, the diminution in the number of our soldiers in India had been so great that it was necessary to send out very considerable reinforcements. It was, he thought, desirable under these circumstances, that the House should have some information as to the end which the Government proposed to themselves in sending out the troops to which he had referred. The noble Lord, in answer to a question put by him (Mr. V. Smith), when he asked if he would lay the papers relating to the Military Commission on the India army on the table, said he would take an opportunity of making a statement on the subject. He saw that the noble Lord had omitted the civil part of the Commission; the reason for that, and the objects of the military Commission, ought to be stated. Moreover, under existing circumstances, something ought to be told them with regard to the probable financial resources of India. A Bill had passed last year to enable the East India Company to borrow £8,000,000, which was to last them till next December. Perhaps, as the loan in India had been taken up better than was expected, it ought to be stated how much the East India Company had borrowed, and whether what they had would last them to December, or whe- ther it would be necessary to call Parliament together in the winter, in order to give them new powers. There was a third point on which he wished information, and that was, whether it was intended as soon as the Act providing for the future government of India had been passed into a law, to issue a general proclamation announcing the assumption of the authority of the Queen in India? Every one seemed to think that this would have a great effect, and would be likely to put an end to the mutinies, but such a step must be taken with caution. There was also another and a delicate point, and that was whether a Proclamation should be issued, having reference to the condition of the Natives of India, and giving an assurance that their religions and customs would be duly respected. He made these observations with no wish to embarrass the Government or the public service. He had the greatest confidence in the noble Lord, and believed that he would act with judgment and vigour, but it was well that Parliament should be acquainted with the present condition of India, what was to be done to put down the mutiny, and what course the Government proposed to pursue in the six ensuing months.

LORD STANLEY

I have to thank the right hon. Gentleman for the courteous manner in which he has put the series of questions he has just addressed to me. At the same time, I must observe that of no one of these questions had he given me notice, except that which relates to his intention to ask me whether I intended to make any statement as to the financial affairs of India in the course of the present year. Upon that point I can answer him distinctly. Looking at the present state of affairs in India, the varying character of the circumstances occurring there, and to the fact that any statement which I might make now would not represent the actual state of Indian finance, I do not think that it would be of any public advantage to enter into a detailed statement with regard to Indian finance at the present moment. As to the military operations which are passing there, the right hon. Gentleman, as well as every other hon. Member, has the means of acquiring all the information he can desire upon that subject. With respect to the question whether any proclamation is to be made of Her Majesty's authority in India, I think it will be right, when the transfer of the government from the Com- pany to the Crown has taken place, that some formal announcement of that transfer should be made to the people of India. In what form it should be made, or what should be the nature of the announcement, is a matter which the Government will require some time to consider; and they will have that time, because I may remind the House that the Act does not come into force until thirty days after its passing into a law. I have said that I do not intend to make any general statement to the House with regard to India; but, if upon any specific point information is asked by hon. Members, I shall be glad to furnish it so far as it may be consistent with the requirements of the public service.

SIR DE LACY EVANS

was understood to express his regret that the Committee on the transport of troops to India had not had an opportunity of stating their opinions, and to say that he had therefore no alternative but to postpone the discussion of the question to next Session. In reference to the force of 17,000 men to which the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Northampton had alluded as being about to be sent out to India, that it was extremely desirable the House should know whether that force was composed of really efficient men or of mere raw recruits. He also concurred with the right hon. Gentleman in thinking that it was most expedient the House should be furnished with some information with respect to the objects and constitution of the Commission which had been appointed to inquire into the organization of the Indian army. He saw no good reason for excluding civilians from it. The last news from India showed how great were the exertions that we had still to make. The victory obtained by Sir H. Rose was not gained without a corresponding loss, and the hot weather must materially affect our forces. Oude was still unconquered, and the British could not say a foot of ground belonged to them in that province except what was occupied by our forces. He had a letter from a gentleman who was fully competent to speak upon the subject, in which it was stated:— You will understand that, although the great events of the war are at an end, the difficulties of it are by no means so. We are committed to a very long contest, of which I suspect we have as yet seen only the beginning. I trust I may be in error. The insurgents are very easily dispersed; but then, on the other hand, they gather together as easily. I am very desirous to see Government step forward and lend a hand to us by judicious proclamations of amnesty. There has been too much blood already, and by denying mercy altogether, as we now do, to the vast mutinous masses, we perpetuate the civil war, and by our own act retain a large army for the insurgent nobles of the various provinces. Until an effort is made to detach these two interests from one another the struggle will grow in intensity. As soon as we succeed in dissolving the alliance it will die out, but not till then. This might have been done some time ago; now it would not be so easy. At any rate, in considering the subject, we must always look at the Sepoy mutiny as one side of a great national insurrection, and I think, for freedom. Now, if those opinions were sound, as he believed them to be, it was clearly the duty of the Government to adopt the shortest route for the despatch of troops to India. Troops could be sent from Plymouth to Bombay in thirty-five days, and to Calcutta in forty-five days, and he hoped during the recess the Government would give their earnest attention to that means of expediting the reinforcement of our army in India.