HC Deb 13 April 1858 vol 149 cc1041-6

Mr. LOWE, in moving for returns relating to the engagements of Africans for the Indian service, said that the present state of the slave-trade question must be his excuse, if any excuse were needed, for his Motion. To make it intelligible he must briefly mention a few circumstances. On the 22nd of March last, in another place, a noble and learned Lord, (Lord Brougham) most honourably known during the last half century from his connection with the slave-trade question, asked a question of the noble Lord at the head of Her Majesty's Government with regard to the truth of a report then prevalent that two officers in the service of the East Indian Company were about to be despatched by Her Majesty's Government to the coast of Africa to enlist negroes for service in India. The President of the Board of Control was not in his place at that time. The answer received by the noble Lord from Her Majesty's Government, from both the Prime Minister and the Under Secretary for War, was, that nothing of the kind had ever been thought of. On the evening following, the President of the Board of Control, in the same place, made a very remarkable statement to the House. He took no notice whatever of the fact that the Prime Minister and the Under Secre- tary for War were ignorant that there had been any intention on the part of Her Majesty's Government to enlist negroes for service in India; but avowed that it had been intended by the Government to despatch that very day two officers to the western coast of Africa by a steamer which was to leave that evening, for the purpose of enlisting a class of men called Kroomen to serve in the vessels and flotillas at the mouths of the rivers Ganges and Irrawaddy, as a sort of preparation for serving as light troops in Her Majesty's army. Now, sending men to sea by way of preparing them to serve as light troops was very like putting a soldier on horseback by way of preparing him to march. However, let that pass. The noble Earl the President of the Board of Control proceeded to say that he found some difficulty had occurred in the matter, owing to the Mutiny Bill for the United Kingdom having already passed through some of its stages. That Bill, he said, would require some alteration to enable the Government to enlist these Kroomen for Indian service. He added, that he had corresponded with the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War on the subject, and the result of that correspondence being that it was too late to make the necessary amendment in the Mutiny Bill, the plan was abandoned. He would offer no objection on the fact that the noble Earl had not communicated his intention of taking such a step to his colleagues. In his evidence before the Indian Committee in 1852 the noble Earl stated that when he was at the Board of Control it was not his habit to communicate with the Prime Minister. He did not so communicate with Sir Robert Peel, and probably, therefore, he kept to the rule now. The other night, too, he bad stated that since the last vote of the House of Commons he looked upon the Court of Directors as having nothing more to do with India than any other body of private individuals; consequently, it could not be expected that he should communicate with them on such matters. After such a frank declaration of his opinions no one had a right to complain of the noble Earl's conduct in this respect; but still it was fitting that the House of Commons should be favoured in this matter with the confidence which he had witheld from his colleagues. It was important that the House of Commons should know what the precise instructions of these officers were, in order that they might judge whether proper precautions had been taken to prevent this proposed enlistment degenerating into a species of slave trade. He hoped, therefore, that there would be no objection to lay on the table copies of these instructions, which must have been prepared, as they were only countermanded the day before the mail sailed. He hoped, too, that some information would be given as to the precautions which had been taken to insure these Kroomen who were to be enlisted were genuine Kroomen, should offer themselves voluntarily, and not be prisoners of war sold by the chiefs on the coast. He should also wish to know what clause of the Mutiny Act would have required alteration to enable this proposition to be carried out, for he was totally unable to understand how the Mutiny Act could have anything to do with the matter. Undoubtedly, if these men were to have been enlisted for the service of Her Majesty in the United Kingdom, some alteration would have been necessary in the Mutiny Act, as it was passed annually; but if they were to be engaged in the naval service of the Crown anywhere, then, as the Naval Mutiny Act passed once for all, no alteration would have been required. The East India Company's Mutiny Act, too, was passed once for all, and no alteration would have been needed in it if these men had been for their service. Moreover, he could not see how it was impossible to have altered the Mutiny Act at that time, as had been stated. It stood then for a third reading, and it would have been quite possible to recommit it, and then introduce the necessary alteration. The right hon. Gentleman concluded by moving— That there be laid before this House, a Copy of all Instructions for the engagement of Natives of Africa in the Indian Service: And, Return of the alterations in the annual Mutiny Act which such engagement would render necessary.

MR. BAILLIE

said, it was quite clear that the right hon. Gentleman neither understood the Mutiny Act nor the rules of Parliament. He was very much surprised that the right hon. Gentleman, who he believed was a lawyer, should have put such a notice on the paper. He asked for "a return of the alterations in the Mutiny Act, which such arrangements would have rendered necessary;" in fact, for a return of alterations which had never been made, and which, in fact, could not have been made at the time. It was plain that the right hon. Gentleman had never read the Mutiny Act. It gave authority to enlist and attest recruits in different parts of the world for Her Majesty's service; but it gave no such authority to the East India Company; and the alteration, if it could have been made, would have been to give this power to the East India Company. As regarded the instructions, the right hon. Gentleman should not only have them, but something more. It would be impossible to understand these instructions without having all the papers relating to the matter, and he should, therefore move, as an addition to the right hon. Gentleman's Motion, for— Copy of a Letter of Mr. Spence, relative to the enlistment of Kroomen: And, Memorandum of Interview between the Court of Directors of the East India Company and Mr. Spence relative thereto, and all subsequent Correspondence and Instructions relative thereto; together with Memorandum of the Amendment required in the Mutiny Act, to enable the East India Company to enlist and attest in the same manner as Her Majesty's Government.

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON

I quite agree in the opinion which seems to have been entertained by Her Majesty's Government, that it would have been desirable to enlist a negro force for employment in India. I believe it would have been an expedient arrangement, and I know that that is the opinion of the Governor General. They would be exceedingly useful, they would stand the climate better than Europeans, and would be free from those objections which apply to Native Indian troops in respect to their peculiar feelings of caste. The difficulty would be, how to raise a Black force, without giving any indirect encouragement to a renewal of the slave trade, and I presume that was the view taken by the Government in this matter. I do not know that it was likely we should have been able to obtain any efficient troops from that coast, for so far as the information which I have received goes, these Kroomen are generally seafaring men, and are not willing to engage for more than a temporary absence from home. They will only take short voyages, and would not be likely to engage for service in India. Neither my right hon. Friend nor myself, wish to imply any objection to the principle of raising Black troops for India, if proper means had been taken for that purpose; what we wish to impress upon the House is, that in raising such a force, great care should be taken that no means be employed which will have the effect of indirectly renewing the slave trade.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

I cannot pretend to give an opinion on the capabilities of the Kroomen, because, though I have had the advantage of recently conversing with two gentlemen who have had great personal experience of the country in which this particular section of the human race resides, their accounts were unfortunately very much opposed to each other. The one told me that they were a race admirably adapted for naval warfare; the other, that their capital accomplishment was shooting with the rifle. One told me that they were perfectly willing to quit their country for any length of time; the other, that they could be relied on only for a very short time. My noble Friend at the head of the Board of Control has in this matter been actuated solely by a feeling of public spirit, and by a desire to omit no opportunity at a moment of exigency of obtaining resources for carrying on the war in which we are engaged in India, and which, from the news we have received to-night, will, I trust, soon be brought to a successful termination. The noble Lord (Viscount Palmerston) may be perfectly certain that, however desirous we may have been to raise a black force for service in India, we should avoid everything which could in the slightest degree have the appearance even of renewing that slave trade which this country has made such immense sacrifices to put down. The tone of the noble Lord requires no comment, and he has taken a very fair view of the matter. I think the Secretary of the Board of Control has made a perfectly sufficient and satisfactory answer to the observations of the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Lowe), whose tone certainly did not resemble that of the noble Lord.

GENERAL THOMPSON

said, it had once been his fortune to be a commandant of Kroomen, and unless they were greatly altered from what they were when he knew them, he believed no Kroomen ever hit a mark yet. He had once held a field day with them, when threatened with an attack from the interior. The Kroomen formed a loose line—in what the old English disciplinarians would have called "some filthy order"—and then each man ran out, and after, like a prudent man, he had turned his face to the rear, he discharged his piece and ran back to the line again. He could not help thinking that somebody had been attempting a joke upon the Government, for they might as well talk of forming a regiment of Cuirassiers out of the journeymen shoemakers of London on account of their aptitude for the prœlium equestre, as attempt to turn the Kroomen of Africa into light infantry.

MR. LOWE

said, he had been reprehended by the Secretary to the Board of Control for his ignorance of Parliamentary practice, because he said that a Bill when it stood for a third reading should be recommitted and Amendments introduced. He reasserted that statement. By a recent order the House had given up its power of amending Bills substantially on a third reading, but they could recommit a Bill and place it for a third reading on a future day. It might not have been worth while to mention it but for the unmerited contradiction of the hon. Gentleman.

MR. LOWE

withdrew his Motion.

Papers moved by Mr. H. Baillie ordered.

House adjourned at Ten o'clock.