HC Deb 18 May 1857 vol 145 cc474-6

Order for Committee read.

House in Committee.

MR. J. D. FITZGERALD moved Resolutions making provision for the payment of certain Salaries, &c. of the Bankrupt and Insolvent Court, Ireland, out of the Consolidated Fund; and for charging Stamp Duties in lieu of fees on certain documents therein, for the purpose of founding a Bill thereupon.

MR. GROGAN

desired explanation.

MR. J. D. FITZGERALD

said, that not a single new appointment would take place under the Bill.

MR. BUTT

asked whether the Bill would create any new salaries?

MR. J. D. FITZGERALD

replied in the negative. It would ultimately effect a permanent saving of between £4,000 and £5,000 per annum.

MR. HENLEY

inquired whether this eventual saving would not be purchased by an immediate increase of expense.

MR. J. D. FITZGERALD

said, the present increase would be very slight indeed.

LORD JOHN MANNERS

was puzzled to know how, when an office was abolished and no new appointment made, there could be any increase of charge, unless, indeed, the retiring pension was to be larger than the original salary.

MR. J. D. FITZGERALD

said the increase was owing to the augmentation that must be made in the salaries of the Judges for having additional duties thrown upon them. The augmentation would amount to about £1,600 a year.

MR. MACARTNEY

thought it would be much better if the right hon. Gentleman had candidly announced the salaries that were to be paid under the new Bill. It would appear that Mr. Hatchell, a hale, stout gentleman, who was at present at the head of the Insolvent Court, was to retire upon his full salary of £1846 a year. Well, it would have been much fairer to have let that out at once. The better plan would be to refer the Bill to a select Committee to determine whether the junction of the two courts was advisable.

MR. J. D. FITZGERALD

denied that there had been any want of candour on his part, for the Bill had been before the public, and in the hands of hon. Gentlemen for nearly two years; and there was not a salary or retiring pension to be granted the full particulars of which were not detailed in the Bill. He also said, that the duties of two existing Judges would in future be discharged by one Judge, whose salary was to be raised from £1,500 to £2,000, on account of the additional work to be thrown upon him. The temporary increase of charge would be nothing like a moiety of the permanent saving.

MR. BUTT

confessed he could not see the saving in giving £1,000 a year to two Commissioners of bankruptcy for doing the work which one man was paid £1,800 a year for not doing.

In reply to Mr. SEYMOUR FITZGERALD,

MR. J. D. FITZGERALD

said, there would be no increase on the present charge arising out of retiring pensions, because no officer retiring would get more than he had at present; but, in respect to the continued officers, namely, the Judges of the Bankruptcy Court and the officials of the Insolvent Debtor's Court transferred to it, there would be some increase of salary.

MR. SEYMOUR FITZGERALD

wanted to know what would be the total increase of charge in respect to those Courts, including compensations for the abolition of offices, increase of salaries, and retiring allowances.

MR. J. D. FITZGERALD

said, the total increase of charge would be from £1,500 to £1,600 a year, including retiring allowances and all.

MR. MACARTNEY

reminded the Attorney General for Ireland that there were eight officers under the present system, but there would be thirteen under the new one.

Resolutions agreed to.

House resumed.