HC Deb 07 December 1857 vol 148 cc272-3
MR. MONCKTON MILNES

The noble Lord gave us to understand that he was in expectation of receiving additional information respecting the condition and treatment of the two British engineers who are detained in prison by the Neapolitan Government; I beg to ask him whether he has received that information, and if he has, whether he will communicate it to the House?

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON

Sir, the question of my hon. Friend has only anticipated an intention which I had to ask permission of the House to make a statement somewhat modifying that which I made on Friday. On Saturday morning we received additional despatches, and another despatch was received this morning. I am sorry to say, Sir, the account which those despatches give does not tally completely with the account received before from the Rev. Mr. Pugh. The Rev. Mr. Pugh stated that the men made no complaint of their treatment, that they were in good health, and in a tolerably spacious apartment. On Saturday morning we received despatches from the Acting Consul, giving an account of an interview which he and the father of one of them had had with the engineers. They seem to have entered into much more detail with them as to their treatment since the commencement of their confinement, then they had done with the rev. gentleman. They did not know the chaplain. They did not know who he was, or from whom or why he came. Hon. Members will easily understand why they did not like to expatiate very much on their condition to a stranger; but to the Acting Consul whom they knew and the father of one of them they were more communicative. That which they complained of is, I am afraid, not at all exceptional. Of course, it is well known that Neapolitan prisons are really a disgrace to a civilized country, and that the treatment to which prisoners are subjected is more fitting a barbarous age than the present time. However, the engineers have not been subjected to anything like torture except so far as the suffering from being handcuffed and strapped, when no such security was necessary, may be somewhat of that description. They had seen confined at first and for three months in a dark, damp, gloomy cell, with attendant circumstances which made it particularly offensive and injurious to health. Their health had suffered, and it is quite true, though it was not stated to the chaplain, that one of them, in a fit of despondency, occasioned by the treatment they were undergoing and the prospects before them, did attempt his life. There was also reason to think that an attempt was made by the Procuratore del Re to falsify the evidence of a witness who had been examined on interrogatories. It was corrected, and the statement was afterwards made such as the witness deposed. With regard to their present situation, the account of the Acting Consul and the father tallies very much with the report which Mr. Pugh had made—namely, that they were in an apartment sufficiently airy, and that there was nothing in their present treatment which could be materially complained of. I should state, also, that with regard to their former treatment they complained excessively of very bad food—bread so black and unwholesome that they could not eat it, and soup nauseous and unfit to take. We are still expecting an answer from Signor Caraffa to the representations which have been made to him, and until that is received there is nothing further to state.

LORD JOHN RUSSELL

Will my noble Friend have any objection to lay on the table the despatch or letter of the Acting Consul?

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON

Perhaps my noble Friend will allow me to look over it again. I do not know whether any part is of a personal character. I presume there will be no objection to produce it.

MR. CONINGHAM

I wish to ask whether any steps are likely to be taken with respect to these men, in order to set matters right. The lives and liberties of Englishmen are not to be trifled with in this manner.

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON

The present state of the matter is this:—They are in prison on a charge of having violated Neapolitan law, and all that we have a right to demand is a speedy, fair, open, public trial, with the best legal assistance that can be given them for their defence.