QUESTION. (Hansard, 4 December 1857)

§ MR.MONCKTON MILNES

said, that before putting to the noble Lord at the 141 head of the Government the question of which he gave notice on the previous night, he would briefly state the circumstances of the case to which it referred. It would be within the recollection of hon. Members that, in the course of last summer, certain persons took forcible possession of an Italian vessel called the Cagliari, and landed on the Neapolitan territory with the intention of making a political descent. The enterprise failed, and the whole of the persons implicated in it were arrested. Amongst them were two English engineers; but the circumstances under which they formed a portion of the ship's company were involved in total darkness. According to some reports they were in irons when the expedition landed; while others affirmed that they were actively employed assisting in the navigation of the vessel. The House was of course aware that diplomatic relations between this country and the King of Naples were at present in abeyance; but although that fact somewhat increased the difficulty of dealing with a case of that kind, he did not think that the House would consider that that circumstance ought in any degree to prevent the lives and liberties of Englishmen from being protected. It was therefore natural that the British Consul at Naples should have applied to see the prisoners, and should have inquired into the circumstances of their arrest, so that if incontestably innocent they might be liberated, or, if there should be any doubt of their innocence, they should receive a fair trial, with the legitimate means of defence. He was informed that those parties had now been detained in prison for about five months, and during that time they were not allowed to communicate either with their friends at home, with the Consul, or with any legal advocate who might be charged with their defence. He took it to be no excuse that these were the Neapolitan forms of procedure, for it was on account of similar forms of procedure that the Government of Naples found itself in its present exceptional position. He therefore wished to ask the Government what measures had been taken, or were to be taken, to assert the rights of humanity and the honour of this country—either by the liberation of our fellow-subjects imprisoned in the Neapolitan territory, or for securing to them what, in the opinion of England and of Europe, might be considered a fair trial, and the legitimate means of defence.

§ VISCOUNT PALMERSTON

By the strict rules, Sir, of the House, I am precluded from saying another word. The practice which prevails of multiplying questions to Her Majesty's Government on Motions for adjournment is one of great inconvenience, because, according to the rules of the House, it is sometimes impossible to give an answer without violating those rules, and it is unpleasant for members of the Government constantly to throw themselves on the indulgence of the House, and to ask for perpetual Bills of Indemnity. Perhaps, however, as the matter is one of considerable interest, I may presume on the indulgence of the House. Sir, it is quite true, as my hon. Friend has stated, that these two engineers were taken in the vessel called the Cagliari, a packet vessel, I believe, proceeding from Genoa to Algiers, which, being diverted from its course by a number of persons embarked in it, who released some prisoners from the Island of Ponza and landed on the coast of the Neapolitan territory, was afterwards seized and all on board made prisoners. Among them were two English engineers. They have been confined now upwards of four, perhaps five months. Her Majesty's Government felt, as my hon. Friend says, that the interruption of diplomatic relations between Great Britain and Naples should not be a bar to prevent the Government of England protecting from improper usage any British subjects who might fall into the hands of the Government of Naples, and that which we considered we had a right to demand was, that our consular officer at Naples should have access to these prisoners, in order to know in what manner they bad been treated in prison. This was the more necessary because it was well known, if not to the whole world, at all events to the British Government, that great barbarities have been committed on persons confined in Neapolitan prisons for the purpose of extorting confessions even of things which had never taken place. For a time the Neapolitan Government refused permission, on the ground that the regulations of Neapolitan law prevented any communication with prisoners until certain proceedings had been taken—proceedings somewhat analogous to our proceedings before a grand jury—showing that there were grounds for putting them on their trial. We did not receive this excuse, but we urged on the Neapolitan Government to permit the acting Consul 143 to see these prisoners. The Neapolitan Government said that their relations might see them. The father of one of the men happened to be living at Genoa, and my noble Friend at the head of the Foreign Office furnished him with a passport and funds to go to Naples, in order to see his son. In the meantime the chaplain of the British mission at Naples, the Rev. Mr. Pugh, who remained after the mission was withdrawn, did obtain leave from the Neapolitan Government, by communicating with the King himself, to see the prisoners, and he had an interview with them. He found them, as he has reported, in good health, not complaining of any ill-treatment, except that, in being conveyed from one prison to another, handcuffs were put on, which they considered an unnecessary indignity. He found them lodged with the captain of the Cagliari in an airy room, with a good aspect, and being up one pair of stairs, free from damp, not complaining of their food, and furnished with money by the company in whose service they were at Genoa through the Neapolitan Government. One thing they complained of was the want of books, which this rev. gentleman undertook to furnish, and this gentleman obtained permission to see them again whenever they wished it. Meanwhile, in consequence of the repeated applications which he was desired to make by my noble friend at the head of the Foreign Office, our acting Consul at Naples had obtained permission himself to see them, and at the date of the last letter which has been received from him he was going to Salerno to have the interview. That being the case, I do not feel that there is any great ground of complaint. We have no right to say that these men shall not be tried. They were found with others apparently in violation of Neapolitan law. They have been permitted to have appointed for their defence one of the ablest lawyers at Naples. Their trial will be public. The consular agent will attend at the trial, and therefore, as far as things now stand, I do not feel that we have any complaint to make against the Neapolitan Government.