HC Deb 09 July 1856 vol 143 cc537-9

Order for Committee read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair,"


said, he should move that the House go into Committee that day three months; he trusted, however, that the hon. and learned Member (Mr. Craufurd) would withdraw the Bill.


said, he would second the Motion on the ground that the Bill was of on objectionable character.

Amendment proposed, to leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "this House will, upon this day three months, resolve itself into the said Committee." instead thereof.


, said, he had considered the Bill, and approved of its principle, as did also his hon. and learned Friend the Solicitor General for Ireland, the Attorney General for England, and the right hon. and learned Lord Advocate. The Bill had been fully discussed, and the opinion of the House had been unequivocally pronounced upon it. On those grounds he thought the House ought to go into Committee.


said, as great doubts had been expressed as to the mode of carrying out the Bill, he thought that was reason enough for asking the House to pause before they proceeded with it. He knew also there was a very strong feeling in Ireland against the Bill, and especially among the commercial communities.


said, he must oppose the Bill, because he knew it was unpopular in Ireland. The theory might be right, but the mode of applying it might be pre-judicial. He did not think that the right hon. and learned Gentleman the Attorney General for Ireland was quite entitled to claim the confidence of Ireland, either in respect to civil or criminal matters.


said, he trusted the House would see the impolicy of passing the Bill at that moment. It was one of those instances which showed how dangerous it was for individual Members to attempt to change the law of a country they knew little of. The Bill looked smooth enough on paper, but when they examined it thoroughly many faults would be found. It would give no jurisdiction to the Courts in Dublin by which relief could be granted from a judgment fraudulently obtained. As the course taken was not in the right direction, he should oppose going into Committee.


said, the hon. and learned Gentleman would lead the House to suppose that the Bill gave certain powers to creditors; but that was not so. All he asked was, that the House should go into Committee, and no doubt the Bill would be made perfect.


said, he should vote against the Bill. It was one of great suspicion, and in that light the commercial classes in Ireland viewed it.

On Question being put, "That the word proposed to be left out stand part of the Question,"

The House divided:—Ayes 74; Noes 69: Majority 5.

Question again proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the chair."


said, the hon. and learned Member (Mr. Craufurd) could not surely think of going on with the Bill when so small a majority was in favour of going into Committee. He should, therefore, move the adjournment of the debate.

The House divided:—Ayes 63; Noes 73: Majority 10.

Question again proposed.


said, he would ask the question, whether the hon. and learned Member for Ayr really intended to persevere with the Bill, which was one of great difficulty, if not impracticable? He thought the hon. and learned Gentleman (Mr. Craufurd) would only waste the time of the House by pressing his Bill now, and he would recommend him to postpone it until the next Session. The measure which the Attorney General for Ireland had intimated that it was his intention to introduce next year would probably effect the objects the hon. and learned Gentleman had in view.


said, he would request hon. Members on the other side of the House to allow Mr. Speaker to leave the chair. The only way to see whether the Bill could be worked out was to go into Committee. He could not imagine by what means the Bill could be considered an Irish Bill, as it applied both to Scotland and Ireland.


said, he thought it rather hard to ask the House to go into Committee when they had not seen the clauses in print which the right hon. and learned Member for Ennis (Mr. J. D. FitzGerald) said he had ready to apply to Ireland.


said, all he would ask was that they go into Committee, and immediately report progress.


said, he did not object to the principle of the Bill, but he certainly saw that it was too late in the Session to go on with it, as the details would require much revision. He would suggest going into Committee pro formâ.


said, he objected altogether to going on with the Bill. The support given by the Government was most unreasonable, seeing that upon that very subject they had abandoned all their own Bills. So strongly did hon. Members on that side of the House feel against the passing of the measure, that they must refuse to proceed further. [The hon. Member was speaking when a quarter to Six arrived, upon which he was stopped by Mr. Speaker,]

Debate adjourned.