THE PRACTICAL CLASS AT WOOLWICH.

HC Deb 18 May 1855 vol 138 cc786-90

MR. NAPIER

said, he wished to call the attention of the House to certain circumstances connected with the recent nominations and appointments to the practical class at Woolwich. He considered a great injury had been done to the public service, and an act of injustice passed upon the University which he had the honour to represent. It appeared that, in consequence of the great want of artillery officers, a syllabus was prepared by Colonel Portlock, under the approbation of the Lieutenant General of the Ordnance. In this syllabus certain schools were requested to send forward the names of select students, thirty of whom were to be admitted into the practical class at Woolwich, without having gone through the theoretical class. Upon this the University of Dublin had acted, and a certain number of young men in the school of practical engineering, attached to the University, were invited to attend an examination. They were put through a severe examination, conducted by professors of the University. Amongst them were seven of superior merit, and the names of the seven, together with those of two others who had already obtained diplomas in engineering, were forwarded to the authorities at Woolwich. This was agreed to at a special board held on the 1st of March. On the 6th of March an answer was received by the Provost from the Ordnance Board, to the following effect— Sir—I am directed by the Board of Ordnance to inform you that a communication has been received from you recommending nine gentlemen for direct appointment to the practical class, Woolwich, and I have the honour to inform you that the gentlemen are already appointed for the next nomination, which takes place to-morrow, the 6th instant. As nineteen is the limit of age, the gentlemen whom you have recommended are not eligible. And I have also the honour to inform you that it is not the intention of the Board of Ordnance to throw open the appointments at Woolwich to the best answerers at a mere mathematical examination. Upon this a request was made by the authorities of the University, on the 8th or 9th of March, that the names sent up by them might be taken into consideration on the next batch of appointments. It was not until the 29th that a refusal was received and the thirty appointments were all filled up. With respect to the ages, it appeared that three of those sent up from Dublin were under twenty years of age. The following was the manner in which the thirty places had been filled. Twelve of the thirty were persons of superior merit, and eighteen of them had no engineering qualifications whatever, but obtained their direct appointment by private influence. It so happened that two of the number thus appointed were from Dublin, and one of them had retired after the first day from the examination by which the qualifications of the persons sent up from the University of Dublin were tested. He, therefore, contended that the University of Dublin and other places which had acted in reliance upon the syllabus of Colonel Portlock had been dealt with unfairly, that the interests of the public service had not been consulted, and that the very merit of the persons so selected was an obstacle, and not an assistance to their advancement. As regarded the matter of age, the regulation required that the candidates must be above seventeen, and under twenty years of age. Now, it so happened that out of the seven that were selected and arranged in order of merit there were two who were nineteen years of age, and one who was eighteen years of age, but they were all three rejected. Of course he did not impute to the Board of Ordnance any intentional act of injustice towards the applicants from Trinity College, Dublin, but, certainly, the effect of the invitation which that Board had held out was to produce great disappointment to those who had undergone the examinations at that College.

MR. MONSELL

said, in answer to the right hon. and learned Gentleman, he had only to say that the Board of Ordnance had nothing whatever to do with regard to the regulations respecting the appointments to which the right hon. and learned Gentleman had referred. Those regulations altogether rested with the Master General of the Ordnance. The right hon. and learned Gentleman had rather inconveniently mixed up two very separate questions. The first question was, whether the existing system of appointment was good or not; and the second question was, had that system been fairly carried out? With regard to the first question, he (Mr. Monsell) admitted that it was one of great importance, and well worthy the consideration of the House. Still, the real question the House had now to consider was, not whether the principle which had existed for so long a time at the Woolwich Academy was a good one or not, but whether it had been rightly and fairly applied in the present instance. The right hon. and learned Gentleman had fairly stated that he did not accuse any of the authorities with having acted unfairly, because it had been admitted that those authorities made the nominations, not upon the ground of merit, but merely in accordance with a system long established. At the same time, he believed that every care was taken that the young men who were nominated should be fitted to the situation to which they were appointed, although it was not pretended that they were selected because they were the fittest persons for the situation.

MR. WHITESIDE

said, he could not help remarking upon the answer which the hon. Gentleman had given to the complaint of his right hon. and learned Friend (Mr. Napier)—namely, that whatever might be the abuse in the system at the Woolwich Academy, it was not his business to inquire into or explain. A scholastic and scientific man at Woolwich College had drawn up a syllabus, in which was pointed out what were the sciences required to be known by candidates eligible for appointment under the Board of Ordnance. A copy of that syllabus came to the hands of the Provost of the University of Dublin. The consequence was, that the young men belonging to that University who had been initiated in mathematics, arts, and sciences, turned their attention at once to the engineering class. The Board of Ordnance had said that, if they thought fit to ask the authorities of the University to recommend them to the authorities at Woolwich, they should be considered eligible for appointment without being required to submit to any subsequent examination. Several young men accordingly submitted themselves to be examined by the authorities of Trinity College, and, having successfully passed their examination, they were recommended by the Provost to the Board of Ordnance at Woolwich. No less than seven young men came to Woolwich, but every one of them was rejected. These persons had been approved of on the sole ground of merit; and the answer of the hon. Gentleman the Clerk of the Ordnance was, that merit was not recognised by the Board of Ordnance. Such was the candid avowal of the hon. Gentleman, and yet surprise was expressed that the hon. Member for Aylesbury (Mr. Layard) should bring forward a Motion condemnatory of the present system by which Government appointments were made. Was it not astonishing that no better answer should be given to the statement of his right hon. and learned Friend than that the usual course had been followed? But the truth was that this vicious system of nomination had always pervaded the public service, and would continue to do so until, by repeated discussion and agitation, both in and out of that House, a remedy was finally forced upon the Government. Meanwhile, these questions would be continually brought forward, though it could hardly be expected that every complaint would be met with the same candid avowal as that which the hon. Member had made in the present instance.

MR. HARCOURT VERNON

said, that he had that day had a conversation with a brother of his, an officer in the Artillery, who had some reputation in his corps for scientific pursuits, and he stated to him that no one had, for many years, done so much for or rendered such important service to his, the Ordnance, department as the hon. Gentleman who now held the office of clerk, who had promoted scientific institutions by every means in his power.

MR. WHITESIDE

said, he begged it to be distinctly understood that he had made no charge whatever against the Clerk of the Ordnance.

MR. V. SCULLY

said, he was strongly in favour of a public instead of a private examination. Until there was a public examination, Irishmen would not get fair play. At present not one-tenth of the Irishmen who were entitled to promotion received it, because the examinations were not public. There was not a single Cabinet Minister who was an Irishman. It had been stated, that the noble Lord at the head of the Government was an Irishman. He (Mr. Scully) had put this question in a letter addressed to the noble Lord. The answer to that letter he would not read, for a reason which he had given on a previous occasion. The noble Lord bore an Irish title, and was the owner of Irish property; but he felt very sorry that he could not claim the noble Lord as a countryman, although he was clever enough to be an Irishman.

SIR JAMES GRAHAM

The noble Lord the Member for Portsmouth (Viscount Monck) is an Irishman.

MR. V. SCULLY

I said a Cabinet Minister. The hon. Member for Portsmouth is not a Cabinet Minister. [Sir J. GRAHAM: The Clerk of the Ordnance.] I beg to remind the right hon. Baronet that I am not speaking of Members of the Government merely, but of Cabinet Ministers; and I repeat there is not one of them an Irishman. Reverting, however, to the remarks of the hon. and learned Gentleman (Mr. Whiteside), I feel quite certain that to insure the due reward of merit, there ought to be public examinations.

COLONEL DUNNE

said, he wished to know what was the requisite test of efficiency for the artillery service—what were the necessary qualifications, and on what ground the selections were made?

Subject dropped.