§ MR. LABOUCHERESir, I beg to put a question to the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer, for the purpose of ascertaining if any measure is to be introduced by Her Majesty's Government with regard to the Civil Service? If any such measure is to be introduced into this House during the present Session, it should be introduced at a period when the House would have ample opportunity for that discussion and deliberation which, from the importance of the question, it requires. I beg to ask, therefore, whether the Government intend to introduce any measure with regard to the arrangement of the Civil Service during the present Session; and if so, at what period of the Session it will be introduced?
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERI entirely agree, Sir, with my right hon. Friend, that a measure relating to the Civil Service is one that would require a good deal of the attention of this House, and that it would not be expedient to introduce such a measure except under circumstances that would give a reasonable assurance of its receiving the attention that it deserves, and also of the House being in a condition to give it that attention. The Government have thought it to be their duty to reserve the consideration of the question, and the bringing in of such Bill, until a period of the Session when they could form a judgment whether there was such reasonable prospect or not. The Government are of opinion that there would be no prospect, if they introduced a Bill for improving the system of admission to the Civil Service, of bringing it under the consideration of the House in an adequate and satisfactory manner during the present year; and therefore it is not their intention to submit any such Bill to the House during the present Session. At the same time, I must say that the Government will reserve to themselves the liberty of considering the question further during the recess, and of taking such measures, and advising Her Majesty in 1306 such way, as they shall think most conducive to the public service. But there is another question immediately connected with the question of admittance to the Civil Service that deeply interests the members of the Civil Service, and with regard to which on a former day I gave a promise that I would announce the intentions of the Government as far as I was able, when I was replying to the question of my right hon. Friend—I mean the question that relates to the superannuation fund of the Civil Service. A claim has been made by a large number of gentlemen who belong to the Civil Service, including some of the greatest eminence, and most meritorious public servants of the day, for the entire abandonment of the contribution now paid by law by civil servants to the superannuation fund, and the resumption by the public of the whole charge for pensions. The Government do not recognise the justice of that claim, and consequently are not prepared to introduce a Bill to alter the Superannuation Fund Act on any such ground, or with any such view; but there are, however, other points with respect to the Superannuation Fund Act on which the Government might think it their duty to submit a measure to the House. The Superannuation Act no doubt would admit, in the opinion of the Government, of material amendment in various parts of it; and likewise there is an allegation of the civil servants, founded upon computations they have caused to be made, which deserves, and has received, the careful consideration of the Government. The effect of that allegation is that the charge to which the Civil Service is now subject, with a view to the formation of a superannuation fund, is a charge that will ultimately be much more than sufficient to defray the entire burden of civil pensions. This is a question involving extremely complicated calculations. It required a long time for the members of the Civil Service to state it as they wished to state it, and those whom the Government have employed for the investigation of difficult questions of computation of that nature have not yet been able to put us in full possession of their views, so as to enable us to give a decision on that part of the question of the Civil Service. Of course, if it should appear to us that the contribution now levied from the servants of the Civil Service is so large that it will ultimately do more than compensate the public for the full charge for pensions, that 1307 is entirely distinct from ordinary amendments of the law and questions of mere policy; it would come forward as a claim of strict justice that the system of contribution to the superannuation fund should be revised and adjusted. I reserve to myself, therefore, the liberty, when in full possession of the facts, to submit a measure to the House founded on that ground, if there be a sufficient case; but presuming that no such case is made out, it is not the intention of the Government to submit to the House any measure for the amendment of the Superannuation Act during the present Session, but we shall reserve the subject until we can consider it in conjunction with the introduction of other important measures with regard to the amendment of the law to which my right hon. Friend has adverted.
§ In reply to a question from Mr. V. SCULLY,
§ THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUERfurther stated that the Government had not expressed the intention of laying any plan before the House of Commons, except in the form of a Bill, and he had already said that they would not introduce that Bill in the present Session. He begged to add that the Government had not receded from the intention which induced them to advise Her Majesty to make the assurances that were contained in the Speech from the Throne.
MR. HUMEsaid, he would suggest that, before any measures were taken, an opportunity should be given to the parties feeling themselves aggrieved to be heard before a Committee of that House.